[roccman]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('yeahbut', '
')
leave it out, mate. You sound like the weedy little guy urging on his jock buddy from the sidelines as he pounds on some poor kid. Put your pom-poms away, sunshine.

[yeahbut]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('roccman', 'B')utt

[steam_cannon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('yeahbut', 'I')t was also a very brave thing of LH to do, given the unpleasant hostility of some members.
And as for being able to take on new ideas and alter one's outlook, the ego of your average human(never mind the average resident of PO.com!) is simply unable to cope with that. LH is to be commended for that, not mocked. If only that capacity existed in more people, we surely wouldn't have made half as much of a mess of the world.

[yeahbut]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('steam_cannon', '
')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('yeahbut', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('roccman', 'B')utt

[steam_cannon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('yeahbut', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('steam_cannon', '
')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('yeahbut', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('roccman', 'B')utt

[steam_cannon]

Peak Everything

By the way, looking over these posts I'm thinking "Peak World Resources" or "Peak World Consumption" might be better terms then "Peak Oil". Oil is the big dog, but most other things are running down due to world population pressure. Energy, friendly climate, available water, metals, ocean life, human life...

Well, if it does need a new name I'm pretty sure Peak Consumerism wouldn't be PC. Hahaha, playing with acronyms...

[Doly]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('steam_cannon', '[')b]Peak Everything

[steam_cannon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Doly', 'T')hey also had some practical suggestions about how to avoid peaking, with beautiful graphs demonstrating this, that everybody proceeded to ignore.

[steam_cannon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Narz', 's')team_cannon, thanks for your contributions to this thread. I'm going to link this to some peeps on another forum.

[Narz]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('steam_cannon', 'I')'m just going to enjoy the show and eat popcorn as rome burns...

[Lighthouse]

Still reading but not so sure if Montes assumptions are 100% accurate. As more as I read as more I come to the conclusion carrying capacity is in direct relationship with lifestyle. A wasteful lifestyle reduces the carrying capacity immense, while we can expect a higher carrying capacity with a more careful use of resources.

Human carrying capacity is the maximum population that can be supported at a given living standard by the interaction of any given human-ecological system. This apparently simple concept has many nuances and is rarely used by population scientists. However, in rejecting this term, purists risk making a terrible conceptual flaw, that of thinking that environmental and human resources are largely irrelevant to human population size.

Peak oil will initially have an negative effect on wasteful societies, which results in a higher carrying capacity.

It is irrefutable that human ingenuity and cooperation can increase human carrying capacity. But even so, human welfare will continue to depend on the external world, including for resources such as food and water. Humans are neither computer ciphers nor caged mice. That is to say, while a given area might tolerate a theoretically higher density of human population than it does, the reality of human evolution in distinct groups, separated by culture, religion, and language, means that this theoretical maximum will rarely be attained. A degree of underused carrying capacity can be viewed as a desirable buffer around disparate groups, vital for reducing tension and preventing conflict.

Still reading but prepared to debate this here if anyone wants to.

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Lighthouse', 'S')till reading but not so sure if Montes assumptions are 100% accurate. As more as I read as more I come to the conclusion carrying capacity is in direct relationship with lifestyle.

[Lighthouse]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', 'Y')es, with changes in our lifestyle we might be able to support the upper end at 3 billion if we restored the environmental damage. 1 billon if not.

But 6.7 billion and counting? Never, at any lifestlye. The environment could not tolerate the load. It can't now. We are living on ghost acreage.

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Lighthouse', ' ')But I can't find any reliable figures of what the carrying capacity of this planet is. Can you elaborate your figures? I can't find any logical reference to a sustainable human population limit of 2 and if we change our lifestyle maybe 3 billion. (How much would we have to change the lifestyle t achieve this?)

Any peer reviewed papers you can quote?

[steam_cannon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Lighthouse', 'P')eak oil will initially have an negative effect on wasteful societies, which results in a higher carrying capacity.

[lakeweb]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('steam_cannon', 'H')ypothetically, if the US suffered an economic collapse and could no longer buy oil, and then if that unbought oil went to China. That oil would increase China's carrying capacity...

[Lighthouse]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', 'H')ere's one of the leading pherogist's take with 17 leading commentators in the field of population and development contributing their views on the 2 to 3 billion estimate.

http://eco.gn.apc.org/pubs/smail.html

14 studies with a median value of 2 to 5 billion. 1 to 3 billion using energy as the metic.

http://www.ilea.org/leaf/richard2002.html

[Lighthouse]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('steam_cannon', 'H')ypothetically, if the US suffered an economic collapse and could no longer buy oil, and then if that unbought oil went to China. That oil would increase China's carrying capacity. But with peak oil, the oil is just not there. So no one is getting a boost in carrying capacity.

[steam_cannon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('lakeweb', 'L')ike their life depends on oil. Well, it hasn't, and it doesn't.

[steam_cannon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Lighthouse', 'H')ow do your sources calculate the carrying capacity. Can you give me a sample calculation and show me what they put in consideration in their calculations to arrive at this figures? Can you post this please here on this board?