[lutherquick]

TommyJefferson,

I love the market, for economics.

What I don't like is this methedology to be used in foriegn policy or our national security.

You say everyone is thinking? BS I say.

We want democracy all over the ME. Yet when we get, we stand here like idiots. Hamas winning was another "bright idea" of US foreign policy.

My effort to say that US foreing policy is to say that there is no TOP level thinking.

Tell me how many of use in the US population get our "thinking" into US foreign policy? I say ZERO...

Like you pointed out, in a command like economy, only the elite get to do the thinking. And you are correct, look at US foreign policy, wich much of it realy drivin by OIL, not democracy, most of this failure is because the "elite" like Rice, Rummy, Cheney are "thinking" and "planning". They all made bad moves, very bad moves.


The way I see this new market foreign policy or this new market national security work is basicly like this. It's all trail and error. Wait for 9/11, then adjust. Think that there are wmd in Iraq, then fail and then adjust...

If brain power were applied would have not ended in Iraq. We would have spent the 300 billion on fusion or something else...

Like you said, elite do the thinking in America... those fee will still stand there and tell us wmd are in Iraq... now don't you feel safe that all those wmd are secure? and don't you feel safe that the same dip sh!t that secured all those wmd is telling you that hydrogen is going to fix everything...

Maybe I'm sick of the baby boomers that have the brains of a pile of rocks. Maybe that's my message...

[rogerhb]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TommyJefferson', 'I')n a "market" EVERYONE is thinking, planning, and acting.

[Kickinthegob]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('lutherquick', 'L')ike you pointed out, in a command like economy, only the elite get to do the thinking. And you are correct, look at US foreign policy, wich much of it realy drivin by OIL, not democracy, most of this failure is because the "elite" like Rice, Rummy, Cheney are "thinking" and "planning". They all made bad moves, very bad moves

[robertstroud]

[I was first introduced to the concept of Peak Oil back in March and spent a long seeking information on this new term. Needless to say it left me disillusioned and afraid, not so much for myself but for my children.
Since that eventful weekend on the internet I have attempted to return to a more optimistic point of view but the continual stream of crisis that seem to sprout up tends to hinder that optimism.

I believe that the state of this nation and that of the world could be best understood by the situation that existed in the slave states on the eve of the 1860 Presidential election.

The South was a nation within itself, a region that had its' own set of values and social conduct. It was a region that was based on cotton. No other economic interests could take a foothold. The politicians and leaders of the south were all tied in with "big cotton"
The trade policy, the attempt at territorial expansion: the Mexican War, the forays into Cuba and Nicaragua, the Kansas and Nebraska acts; were all attempts by a dying society to preserve their arachaic form of life.

Nothing else seemed to matter. The small farmer who constituted over 95% of the free southern society did not look at an unjust social and economic state and want to change it. No, they wanted to find a way to partake in the decandent yet lavish lifestyle of those who lived on the plantations.

When Lincoln was elected, it was considered as the last straw in a series of events that were challenging to existence of their way of life. When the call went up to defend this way of life almost all of the population heeded the call. There was little dissent.

Fast forward 140 years and look at our current situation. For all of the diversity we have in this nation, for all the changes in the economy that have happened in the last thirty years, we are still a nation thats economy is based on one item, that being the automobile. No matter how you look at it, all of our society is dependent on the use of a vehicle to get us from point A to point B and then on the point C. We do not attempt to look at alternatives but rather we are quick to defend our lifestyle. We look for scapegoats to blame for threatening our way of life.

We of the post world war generation tend to think only in terms of material acquisition and assume that it is a quaranteed right. We want to get in our gas guzzling vehicles and travel twenty miles somewhere to buy a burger or go to a mall and stare at the countless other vehicles creeping down the road and find joy in our freedom.

We commute to work individually.
We fill our homes with as many gadgets possible that all consume
valuable energy.
We demand hot in winter and cold in summer.
We are in short addicted to a way of life that we refuse to question or attempt to change.

So when we get involved in places like Afghanistan or Iraq we gloss our imperialism with terms like freedom and democracy. We say we are fighting terrorism and tyrants(not that Saddam would ever win the Nobel Peace Prize, though at one time we found him a convenietn ally)

Our young men and women hasten to the call to protect the nation and to participate in a new manifest destiny.

No, the need for oil is our national economy. Take away oil and our whole society would collapse very quickly.

We are as quilty as the small farmers in the south. We want to be part of an a society that we have the ability to change, but until we recognize that, until we make the effort to change ourselves and try to build something better we are doomed to fighting battles overseas and propping up illegitimate governments to preserve our perceived economic interests.

[Colorado-Valley]

Hey, welcome to the boards.

I like the analogy to the South and its impossible attempts to maintain a way of life that could not continue economically or ethically.

So have you bought a small farm yet?

[gg3]

Good analogy. Cotton and cars. And the desire for upward economic mobility.

The common denominator here is the confluence of greed and laziness.

Greed by itself is not so much of a problem, as long as an individual is willing to work hard for what s/he wants.

Laziness by itself is not so much of a problem, as long as an individual is willing to make do with fewer material comforts in exchange for not working.

But when you put the two together in combination, what you get is the desire for things combined with the aversion to work and the results of that are always necessarily disastrous: slavery in one form or another, and burning through energy and other resources with no regard for the future.

[Don35]

Great posts, super ideas. How does it change? Do we hold on and ride out to the end trying to prepare for the worst? I tend to be a pessimist about the ability and willingness of people to change. Change happens in societies only when forced and by the time this change is forced, it might be too late!

[Kingcoal]

Today, the US is the driver of the world economy. The "job" that the US has fallen into is that of creating and nurturing new markets. The problem is that the rest of the world, including the EU, wants to build rather than buy. Why is the constant expansion of the world economy so important? To give the population of the world something to do. If people are busy in productive jobs, they won't be sitting around planning terrorist attacks. That is the way China looks at it, as well as Russia and every other non-terrorist state. The peak oil problem is just one of sustainability. The world population continues to grow at an unprecedented rate. The rational of our wasteful society is that it creates markets in which inventions are brought into fruitation. Humans are competitive, petty creatures and need motivation to invent - like getting rich. The idea is that the dynamic world economy will invent its way to prosperity. It's worked so far - as long as cheap oil has been available. That's the problem; we haven't invented our way around the peak oil obstacle. Many on this board have subscribed to doom and gloom. I prefer to stay optimistic. The current situation of allowing oil to gradually become more expensive is a good one. The US wants to prevent shocks, which can be devastating. There is nothing the US can do about the long slope downward (of oil production), so the most rational strategy is to keep that slope as smooth as possible.

I bring all this up because I believe the comparison to the confederate states is flawed. The confederacy had everything to loose and little to gain by making slavery illegal. After the civil war, the south's economy was in ruin and just recently, in the past 50 years, has recovered. The civil war was about morality, ethics and the role of the federal government as protector of the Constitution. The country was flawed from the start by allowing slavery and that needed to be corrected. It’s all part of the maturing of a young country.

I could understand your argument if the US was pursuing policies to drive down the price of oil at any cost, but it isn't. On the contrary, the GWB administration has been very stingy with the Strategic Petroleum Reserve. Rather, the government seems to be pursuing a policy to drive oil up in price, pricy, but available. This policy will continue to drive investment dollars towards research into alternatives without producing economic shocks. I think the powers that be know that there is no magic solution. The peak oil problem is a complex one and will probably have a complex solution. The only solution offered by doomers is population reduction. I think we can do better than that.

[Zardoz]

Helluva first post, Mr. Stroud! Welcome to the forums.

I'd say your analogy to the Old South has a lot of validity. I would never have made the connection between cotton and oil. It's all about trying to keep the party going as long as possible, and we may end up like the Confederacy did.

[robertstroud]

I currently have a son stationed in Afghanistan and another son finishing his training in the Marines and in March he will get his chance at tour of duty in Iraq. I am proud of both of them and support them in their decisions. I am, howerver, not proud of our administration and their blind attempts to forge foreign policy through military action.

We as a nation consume around 40% of the world's resources and yet we only represent 6% of the population. When most of the world was underdeveloped and not growing very fast, it didn't seem to matter much. Now with the rapid growth of China and India and their attempts to copy our lifestyle, the resources of the world are coming under more strain.

Our national policy is to secure resources. Our current administration and probably the next one whether Democrat or Republican will more than likely use force. We will continue to send our young men and women into harms way and use rhetoric that brings pride to the American public.

We are at a crisis in this world and instead of continually electing leaders who use the same tired sayings, we need statesmen and stateswomen who recognize that change is needed not only in this country but in the world and that force cannot be the answer.

We live in unique times, the future of humanity is at stake and we have the opportunity to say that we can create a better world for our children or that we can give them a bleak future. We have the technology, we have the education infrastructure, we still have strenght in our economy.

In the past when we faced challenges we rose to the occasion. We have in the past contributed so much to the prosperity of the world in the last one hundred years. In education, medicine, science, technology, transportation; we have been continually forged ahead with new innovation.

Now we are at a crossroads in the history of humanity. Our leaders must recognize this and be aware that this planet does not belong to us at this moment for our continual use and waste of limited resources. Rather our leaders should be more in tune with the realities of the world and change the direction of their policies and rhetoric.

We should demand:
Better Public Transportation
Tax credits to help develop alternative and renewable energy sources.
An educational system that is more challenging and improves our dismal record in science and math.
A National Energy Prize similar to the Nobel Prize which will reward individuals for achievement in useful technology rather than trivial ideas like "American Inventor"

Twice in the last century, this nation rose at great challenges.
In 1939, while most of the world armed and created new technologies for better waging wars, this country's military was stagnant. Yet within six years it had faced the challenge of a two front war and with our allies had defeated two of the greatest military powers ever assembled. The American public rose to the occasion and engaged in sacrifice and responsibility.

In 1961 Kennedy proclaimed that by the end of the decade we would put a man on the moon. A pretty amazing statement considering the fact that we had not even sent a man into space. Yet in 8 years we were able to send men to to moon and bring them back safely.

Our policy for the future must look back at these successes and say we are going to make the world a better place, a safer place. We cannot continue to live blindly to the fact that the world is changing. We have associated materialism with freedom, the core freedoms of this country. We have our material freedom because of the basic freedoms. Yet if we continue to live in the past and the present, we might destroy the future for our children.

We have to start at the bottom and as individuals make the changes needed to survive and prosper.
Carpool
Take public transportation whenever possible
Change the temperatures in our residences.
Plant a garden.
Buy a bicycle
Walk more

The point is we cannot expect our leaders to change if we are not going to do likewise.

It is time for the American people to become the innovators that we once were.

A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
A terrace nine stories tall begins with a shovelful of earth.
A tree that spans a man's arms begins with a single seedling.

[EnergyUnlimited]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Zardoz', 'H')elluva first post, Mr. Stroud! Welcome to the forums.

I'd say your analogy to the Old South has a lot of validity. I would never have made the connection between cotton and oil. It's all about trying to keep the party going as long as possible, and we may end up like the Confederacy did.

[jasonraymondson]

Do any of you know of any good foreign (to the US) newspapers that really attack and dismantle America Foreign policy. I have tried doing some searching, but I am coming up blank. Since, I am kind of looking for a paper that is written in english. That isn't from UK, Canada, or Australia.

[eastbay]

You will search in vain for this paper.

This thread will end up in the HOF IMHO.

[virgincrude]

Try AsiaTimes Online, Dawn in Pakistan, or The Nation, also Pakistan.

[virgincrude]

Oh, and of course, counterpunch.org

[Bas]

journalism isn't about attacking or defending, it's about reporting. You do have columns in papers that might be more offensive on American policy but in general journalists should and do refrain from judgement. Ofcourse in some backward countries objective reporting and opinion are more and more the same.

[Carlhole]

Pepe Escobar over at www.atimes.com is a good author to read.

[virgincrude]

"journalism isn't about attacking or defending, it's about reporting. You do have columns in papers that might be more offensive on American policy but in general journalists should and do refrain from judgement. Ofcourse in some backward countries objective reporting and opinion are more and more the same"



I have NO idea why they made you a moderator.

Such naivete, such innocence!

[Denny]

Well its sure anti-U.S., but its journalistic integrity is suspect.

Check Granma, published by the Cuban Communist Party.

[eastbay]

Here's another paper to add to your favorites if you want an completely unbiased perspective on politics and current events.


.... and another paper offering a rational non-US/ non-Israeli perspective.


And, of course we can't forget to fav this one either.

I hope these three news sources help you.