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Should we change what we're doing?

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General interest discussions, not necessarily related to depletion.

Re: Should we change what we're doing?

Unread postby kadoomsoon » Mon 05 Nov 2007, 11:09:23

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('yeahbut', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('RedStateGreen', '
')
It's in the "Planning for the Future" forum. Where I mostly hang out. :)


Cheers mate. That sounds like me, I'll check it out.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Heineken', '
')What makes you think I think dieoff will exclude me, as long as I "prepare" hard enough for it?

I have no such illusions.

So I might as well hang out here with one arm and grow my mushrooms with the other. Either way, I think I'm better off than I'd be watching reality crap on TV.


I'm new here. I'm still trying to figure out what those at the 'big die-off' end of the spectrum are up to. I'm trying to understand the thinking. If you are totally certain that it's going to go tits-up, wouldn't you want to take drastic action as far as preparation goes? But I guess I'm starting to get it-the threat is so great that any action is pointless. As inculcated put it "the ability to accept your death" is important, and "Hard work will invariably produce an infrastructure. The larger the infrastructure the greater the likelihood of being noticed. A higher likelihood of being noticed increases your probability of becoming a target." Or as you put it Heineken, I might as well hang out here. I can certainly see where you're coming from,but the perspective does seem to be very handy in the way that it requires no action whatsoever!

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Heineken', '
')It's possible the real intent of your post is to ridicule the notion that any serious problems are coming down the pike. But the way it's written, one can't be sure.


Any ambivalence in my tone is because of my novice status. Half the time I'm planning my off-the-grid eco-farm, the other half this seems about as real as Buck Rogers.


You almost have it.

The point is when things go down, , people are not going to come to work and sell you their last few gallons of gas from their gas stations just to help you.
In other words you are suddenly going to have to gas, no food, and no hospitals.

How long did this last in ?New Orleans?

And everyone who is alive willl not be running around trying to make sure YOU are well fed. Juest imagine it. Imagine you are on your own, not for a week, not for a year but for 50 years...

what you going to do now?

Move to a big city?
They won';t even come to empty the sanikans when they get full.

So the shills say "Well, you wont run out"

Where Ia say, "liar".
I was there when we ran out in 74, and they were still hauling in TONS of gasoline it was just a little short.
Imagine when they STOP hauling in anything.

People do not switch to sudddenly good behaviour when they run out of food. Look at the lady in the store at Kmart at a fire sale. Broken jaw, punched out eye.

but this is just the trouble for a few weeks before the war.

What happens when you tick off 200 milion mercans?

war, and desperate war will bring in desperate counterwar, someone is going to press the button, it has already happened in the future. My time traveler friend already told me. And it is less than 7 years...
Last edited by kadoomsoon on Mon 05 Nov 2007, 11:14:04, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Should we change what we're doing?

Unread postby Ludi » Mon 05 Nov 2007, 11:15:59

I don't get the surreal feeling myself, personally, because I would be working on my mini-farm even if it weren't for peak oil. Peak oil is mainly a motivator for me to work a little harder than I would otherwise. But global warming is just as much a motivator for me.
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Re: Should we change what we're doing?

Unread postby kadoomsoon » Mon 05 Nov 2007, 11:19:44

You need to remember: Low profile, keep cool, stay away from cities, at least three highway turnoffs and an hour or two so they will run out of gas before they get to your house.

The big problem is, the people running everything are commited to causeing the final crash, weird as it may sound, it is going to happen. Live every day as if it is your last, enjoy your family turn off the stupid mind programming device, the TV, it programs you to believe everything is ok again. This is the number one cause of flip flop doomerism, it is hard to think straight when the kids are up early watching looney tunes.
and you get trash from CNN and fox. grow independant and enjoy every minute you ahve left. EVeryone is about to loose their tempers when they don't get their daily 4000 calories to keep their weight at 350.
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Re: Should we change what we're doing?

Unread postby Heineken » Mon 05 Nov 2007, 12:26:36

"The Party's Over" was the really important book for me too, Shanny. I've been an environmental freak since childhood, but Heinberg was the guy who informed me about the scary nexus between energy and the systems that keep me, as a surplus human being living in the creepy zone beyond carrying capacity, alive.

The monster Bush helped crystallize my political conversion. Previously I was a liberal Democrat who occasionally bragged about US military prowess (still feeling my testosterone then). Now I'm a what . . . a nothing. A sort of eco-anarchist, maybe.

Ron Paul's pretty right with me, although I've heard him criticized for not being very environmentally aware.

However, we're not going to get Ron Paul, are we? We're going to get another mask for the establishment . . . guaranteed. Only the name will change, and maybe the sex.
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Re: Should we change what we're doing?

Unread postby Aaron » Mon 05 Nov 2007, 13:40:12

All of you will have a place in my post-peak feudal reaping empire.

Of course, for some of you, your place will be slavery... or as food for the slaves, but rest assured that those who survive will enjoy reaping all of your carefully prepared gardens & such in an orgy of hedonistic squander.

Just a gentle reminder that possession is 9/10th's of ownership...

... & 100% of survival.
The problem is, of course, that not only is economics bankrupt, but it has always been nothing more than politics in disguise... economics is a form of brain damage.

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Re: Should we change what we're doing?

Unread postby jdmartin » Mon 05 Nov 2007, 14:22:23

This has been a fascinating thread. Part of it is that, as others have said, a lot of this stuff has been hashed & rehashed a million times. To some extent, I think it's unfortunate that the cornucopians have been shouted down from the rafters, because I'd be interested in hearing all the ideas that are out there, good or bad. Because if it's really and completely as bad as uber-doomers make out - we're all on the throes of die-off, fighting off suburban zombie squads - then all we're doing here is jerking each other off in a giant orgy of doomer euphoria. However, if it doesn't quite go down like that, and instead crumbles slowly, or even simply recedes for a while before ramping back up, it would be useful to have all kinds of points of view in one's head. I consider myself a mild doomer, in that I think a lot of it can't be fixed given the nature of humanity, but I'd still like to get some other feedback.

Because, short of that, coming by here only serves to get a funny quip every once in a while and learn about some current topics. I think that collectively it would be wiser to give the cornucopians a break and solicit that input. No one can say with any certainty that they know what's going to happen, unless they're a god or a liar.
After fueling up their cars, Twyman says they bowed their heads and asked God for cheaper gas.There was no immediate answer, but he says other motorists joined in and the service station owner didn't run them off.
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Re: Should we change what we're doing?

Unread postby Pops » Mon 05 Nov 2007, 14:41:25

Aaron's post is just a gentle reminder that some folks only preps are to imagine they will be capable of taking yours.

Provide for a few crumbs to give them as they struggle by and some incentive to keep them going.


As for THE plan, here are some resources to help form your own.
http://www.peakoil.com/fortopic32766.html

In addition to Assessments and Plans I like 5 Rules -- http://www.peakoil.com/fortopic29910.html

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('thuja', 'H')ow many people do you honestly think are going to pore through old threads to find that nugget of wisdom?

Of course there is no One nugget thuja; you know that. And like I have said before, I could not care less about the majority of folks spending their time studying which HDTV to buy, but I do care about those close to me (and maybe not so close) that may be motivated to use some of the info in those threads at some point.
The legitimate object of government, is to do for a community of people, whatever they need to have done, but can not do, at all, or can not, so well do, for themselves -- in their separate, and individual capacities.
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Re: Should we change what we're doing?

Unread postby Heineken » Mon 05 Nov 2007, 15:42:56

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jdmartin', 'B')ecause if it's really and completely as bad as uber-doomers make out - we're all on the throes of die-off, fighting off suburban zombie squads - then all we're doing here is jerking each other off in a giant orgy of doomer euphoria.


Well, I am one doomer who does not enjoy the prospect of doom. I'm sure there are plenty of others who feel the same way. I think the idea that all doomers are masturbating their brains with misery is cornu propaganda. I love the good things in this world, and the prospect of their loss blackens me.

To me, doom is a logical conclusion (double entendre intended). When I stack up all the facts and trends, that's what I end up with. A major partial dieoff (at a minimum) is not only likely but certain. Our course down that path is not only continuing, it is actually accelerating rapidly.

So . . . what could be more important to talk about than TEOTWAWKI?
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"Things have entered a stage where the only change that is possible is for things to get worse."
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Re: Should we change what we're doing?

Unread postby Heineken » Mon 05 Nov 2007, 15:48:11

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Aaron', 'A')ll of you will have a place in my post-peak feudal reaping empire.


Does that empire exist in etherspace too?
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Re: Should we change what we're doing?

Unread postby Pops » Mon 05 Nov 2007, 16:06:23

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Heineken', 'D')oes that empire exist in etherspace too?

Not too:

Only.
The legitimate object of government, is to do for a community of people, whatever they need to have done, but can not do, at all, or can not, so well do, for themselves -- in their separate, and individual capacities.
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Re: Should we change what we're doing?

Unread postby Aaron » Mon 05 Nov 2007, 16:49:17

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Heineken', 'D')oes that empire exist in etherspace too?

Not too:

Only.


It exists as part of a neural-interactive simulation we call... peakoil.com.

There is no "spoon".

It is you that bends.
The problem is, of course, that not only is economics bankrupt, but it has always been nothing more than politics in disguise... economics is a form of brain damage.

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Re: Should we change what we're doing?

Unread postby Pops » Mon 05 Nov 2007, 17:05:06

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Aaron', 'T')here is no "spoon".

It is you that bends.

Well done Aaron, I like it!

Very Rod Serling.

And apropos...
The legitimate object of government, is to do for a community of people, whatever they need to have done, but can not do, at all, or can not, so well do, for themselves -- in their separate, and individual capacities.
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Re: Should we change what we're doing?

Unread postby Ludi » Mon 05 Nov 2007, 17:09:40

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Heineken', 'S')o . . . what could be more important to talk about than TEOTWAWKI?



How to make it less bad.
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Re: Should we change what we're doing?

Unread postby yeahbut » Mon 05 Nov 2007, 18:13:45

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Heineken', 'S')o . . . what could be more important to talk about than TEOTWAWKI?



How to make it less bad.


Yup. Nice. Bang on. That is definitely more important to talk about.
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Re: Should we change what we're doing?

Unread postby thuja » Mon 05 Nov 2007, 18:48:17

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Heineken', 'S')o . . . what could be more important to talk about than TEOTWAWKI?



How to make it less bad.


Yup- agreed...are we jerking each other off on a doom-o-gasm or are we talking about mitigation, efforts for community preparedness, offering ideas for Powerdown, etc.

One thing I saw MQ do a while back is to try and create a thread to explore population reduction. I, and a number of others did not agree with his ideas, but it was certainly worth the effort. Perhaps a whole forum dedicated to "Solutions", or at least adapting to overwhelming change...

Right now a lot of the planning forum is devoted to individual choices that one makes to prepare such as homesteading, wood heat, rainwater catchment, etc, but not much on a political and community level for shifting the way entire communities react to the "big change".

On a personal level I believe the adage that united we stand, divided we fall. Personal preparation is wonderful and I do a lot of it, but done within a vacuum it is next to useless. I think a site like this could sway people to shift away from techno-fixing to true adaptation and mitigation. Instead I see too much- we're doomed - let the peasants die in the streets- I've got a glock and my cornfields...
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Re: Should we change what we're doing?

Unread postby Pops » Mon 05 Nov 2007, 18:55:29

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('yeahbut', 'Y')up. Nice. Bang on. That is definitely more important to talk about.

Then get to reading and doing from what you read in the Planning Forum instead of the talking in the Talking Forum.

Cripes folks it is time to make a move I'm thinking.

or sit here in this thread and talk...
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Re: Should we change what we're doing?

Unread postby thuja » Mon 05 Nov 2007, 19:07:50

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('yeahbut', 'Y')up. Nice. Bang on. That is definitely more important to talk about.

Then get to reading and doing from what you read in the Planning Forum instead of the talking in the Talking Forum.

Cripes folks it is time to make a move I'm thinking.

or sit here in this thread and talk...


Sometimes its key to assess how a website is set up as it affects the agenda, nature of threads and overall direction the site takes. A little reflective constructive criticism is a good thing...
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Re: Should we change what we're doing?

Unread postby yeahbut » Mon 05 Nov 2007, 19:29:58

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('yeahbut', 'Y')up. Nice. Bang on. That is definitely more important to talk about.

Then get to reading and doing from what you read in the Planning Forum instead of the talking in the Talking Forum.

Cripes folks it is time to make a move I'm thinking.

or sit here in this thread and talk...


Ooh, that's me told...fair enough mate. I'll be shuffling off to put my money where my mouth is. Anyway, just thought I'd say, what a bloody interesting lot of people you are! This has been the most stimulating few weeks for me as I've read and listened and finally thrown in my 5 cents. I am experiencing that 'red pill' thing again and again as I fluctuate between business as usual and really taking this s**t on board(it certainly makes walking thru the mall a weird experience when the red pill is kicking in properly). Thanks RedStateGreen and Pops for those tips on where to go, that's really helpful stuff. Nice curve Aaron, that's a classic, I've sent it to a few mates. I reckon I'm still peaking, probably go over the cliff after another few installments from kadoomsoon. And thanks also for the assurance of a place in your empire, it's good to know I'll have a job to go to. I chuckled ever so slightly nervously at the "or as food for the slaves" line, it's very recent in New Zealand's history that people were eating each other owing to a lack of protein...
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Re: Should we change what we're doing?

Unread postby Pops » Mon 05 Nov 2007, 19:37:22

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('thuja', 'S')ometimes its key to assess how a website is set up as it affects the agenda, nature of threads and overall direction the site takes. A little reflective constructive criticism is a good thing...

True, I have no qualms about you challenging the agenda hereabouts – I agree in large part.

But you have been doing things for year’s thuja and have certainly developed your own approach in practical terms, as have I.


My point is each of us should be doing things more than simply talking; and this forum is all about talking.

See my point?
The legitimate object of government, is to do for a community of people, whatever they need to have done, but can not do, at all, or can not, so well do, for themselves -- in their separate, and individual capacities.
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