[jboogy]

I don't think many of us who have made changes to be somewhat self-sufficient are eagerly awaiting a crash so we can put our preparations to the test . I like gas and engines and cars and electricity in those convenient little holes. I'm not a "green" guy who wants to get back to nature and commune with the trees. Furthest thing from it . Hate camping unless it's in a fully equipped travel trailer or winnebago , preferably with a TV and internet dish on top. I can't see everyone reverting to the 1800's when the infrastructure collapses , those energy cats have been out of the bag for a long time . It may be too late (IMHO) to convert to new / renewable energy sources on a large scale but MANY will continue living as they do now . We know how to manufacture small amounts of energy for personal use now , I have solar panels (uninstalled) , and blueprints and permits for energy ethanol production. I just don't see a pressing need to switch over yet , I can still afford 3.00 per gallon gas and 200.00 a month electric bills.When TSHTF you'll be surprised to see how many adapt and prosper without breaking a sweat . That's not even addressing all the hardcore survivalist types who ARE eagerly awaiting the crash so they can head into the woods and get stinky. Humans are nothing if not resilient .

[Ludi]

You can easily put your preperations to the test without a crash, fer pete's snake. This year had enough weather events to give many of us at least a day or two to see how we do without grid services.


jboogy - $200.00 a month electricity bills?! Wha....? I guess you really do like electricity in those convenient little holes!

[wisconsin_cur]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Zardoz', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('wisconsin_cur', '.')..The problem with the roaming hoards line of thought is not that it will not happen, but that the hoards get smaller with each assault.

[gnm]

Why do you assume no anything PMS? We have alternative power and water backup/pressure as well as plenty of food supplies and stores of items to repair most everything. Many of my neighbors are the same. We get "trial runs" all the time. It is not uncommon to lose grid power even for more than a day. Its also not uncommon to be isolated for several days in a blizzard without power. Last time that happened we bundled the kids into a sled (it was too deep for them to walk), and drug them over to the neighbors so they could play with their kids. We all had power because of our backups. The one we visited didn't even know the power was off because he is off grid. We had to lower our usage a bit and switch off any electric heaters/that sort of thing. But hardly Olduvai.

-G

[PenultimateManStanding]

That's the presumption of the Olduvai Theory, g. I'm not saying it's going to happen though it does look possible to me. If so, then being 'off grid' would eventually be total, not just not being hooked up to the electrical grid. No bullets, no tractors, no textile factories, no replacement Mason jars for the ones that break, etc. The list of tasks to accomplish would be enormous just to live a grim subsistence life.

[gnm]

Quite true, if it were to indeed come to that level. But I would look at it a different way. If you can last long enough to survive the initial upheaval, there are going to be a hell of a lot of unused mason jars and misc stuff in whats left of the cities and suburbia. We'll just go a foraging...

-G

[PenultimateManStanding]

btw, I don't think even Duncan was suggesting a sudden collapse. It starts with progressively worse rolling brownouts, eventually culminating in a permanent blackout. A sudden collapse would probably be easier to deal with than a gradual disintegration.

[PenultimateManStanding]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Shannymara', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', 'A') sudden collapse would probably be easier to deal with than a gradual disintegration.

[wisconsin_cur]

Of course as states fail there are always those areas outside of the control of the central government. Chiapas or the swamps of south central Iraq.

Keep your head low and hang on and stay out of the burn zone.

[sittinguy]

This is a GREAT post! Just like alot of you here I have spent alot of time dreaming of how it could go. And I saw a couple posts ago the phrase (burn zone). I seriously think that is what will happen in the cities. People will become desperate and angry and will BURN EVERYTHING.

[PrairieMule]

Sometimes I wonder if our fears of roving mutant zombie bikers are overblown. Reminds me of the old Twilight Zone episode "Monsters on Maple Street".

Now I live in tornado alley and actually experienced one miss me by three blocks in 1984. Yet I don't obsess about Tornados. Or there was the time I caught two marijuana scouts at our front gate while hunting hogs. They saw me walking with my .357 towards them and they took off in their pickup. At 26 I almost got trampled by a small herd of buffalo in the Witchita mountains, at 23 I spent 2 days wandering lost in the Ouachita National forest with no food, and so on. All these situations could have ended very bad.

Much like our fear of say rattlesnakes, the reality of the situation is the other party is just as scared if not more than we are. As Shanny pointed out we should have more faith in ourselves.

My point is do what you got to do. Get out of debt, have a circle of friends who are like minded(peakoil.com), learn to clean and operate a firearm, learn about agriculture, and finally have a little faith.

[PenultimateManStanding]

You bring up a point that I've been meaning to address PM. The posters here in little rural towns like to say the starving hordes will flee the big cities and head for the rural areas. Economic common sense indicates that the situation will in fact be just the opposite. Rural areas will be the first to suffer. When the transportation systems come under stress it will be rural routes that lose their deliveries first. Profit margins will dry up for delivering chicken pot pies in refrigerated trucks to multiple little towns hundreds of miles from major distribution hubs. Dallas will still get it's chicken pot pies long after the little towns of 500 out in the sticks have nothing on their store shelves. Little remote towns all across the country will be emptying out and heading for the cities to avoid starvation. Kunstler won't be able to stay in his quaint little tourist town and run a newspaper. He's going to have to shuffle off to Buffalo.

[Pops]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', 'M')y point here is that if the worst does happen then forget about it.

[wisconsin_cur]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', 'Y')ou bring up a point that I've been meaning to address PM. The posters here in little rural towns like to say the starving hordes will flee the big cities and head for the rural areas. Economic common sense indicates that the situation will in fact be just the opposite. Rural areas will be the first to suffer. When the transportation systems come under stress it will be rural routes that lose their deliveries first. Profit margins will dry up for delivering chicken pot pies in refrigerated trucks to multiple little towns hundreds of miles from major distribution hubs. Dallas will still get it's chicken pot pies long after the little towns of 500 out in the sticks have nothing on their store shelves. Little remote towns all across the country will be emptying out and heading for the cities to avoid starvation.

[PenultimateManStanding]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', '
')And really, the only thing that irritates me is tomato worms.

[PenultimateManStanding]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('wisconsin_cur', '
')My "plan b" escape route takes me to one of the first places that i would expect to empty. i would not mind at all if my area were to empty of those with a suburban mind. I think the rest of us can find our way with out too many suburbans to get in our way.

[wisconsin_cur]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('wisconsin_cur', '
')My "plan b" escape route takes me to one of the first places that i would expect to empty. i would not mind at all if my area were to empty of those with a suburban mind. I think the rest of us can find our way with out too many suburbans to get in our way.

[PrairieMule]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', 'Y')ou bring up a point that I've been meaning to address PM. The posters here in little rural towns like to say the starving hordes will flee the big cities and head for the rural areas. Economic common sense indicates that the situation will in fact be just the opposite. Rural areas will be the first to suffer. When the transportation systems come under stress it will be rural routes that lose their deliveries first. .

[PenultimateManStanding]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Shannymara', '
')PMS, food comes from "empty" land

[wisconsin_cur]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Shannymara', '
')PMS, food comes from "empty" land