[Carlhole]

America Used To Be Really Goddamn Awesome

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Bob Cesca', 'I')'ve been captivated by Ken Burns' The Warthis week and it struck me how awesome America used to be.

The prevailing attitude of the ladies and gentlemen featured in Burns' film, and by proxy all Americans of that era, was that if we had to fight a war, we had better do it right. Clearly and with little dissent, we had to fight that war, and without fail, Americans rallied together to do it really damn well.

People from every corner of the nation selflessly pooled their resources for the great cause of World War II, and I'm not sure about this one, but I don't think President Roosevelt ever once asked the country to sacrifice by going to the mall. And I'm pretty sure he didn't outsource the construction of tanks, Flying Fortresses, Hellcats and Thunderbolts to Mexico and China. That's a hell of a thing by today's standards, isn't it?

We've fallen so far from what we used to be...

[Novus]

The Roman Republic used to be pretty damn Awesome too. Then it got replaced by a corrupt empire which the entire world hated. When it fell into ruin it took half the world with it. Funny how history repeats itself.

Every western based society seems to go through such cycles:

Birth in Idealism -> Powerful rise in promise -> Peak -> Decline

[TommyJefferson]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Bob Cesca', 'I')'ve been captivated by Ken Burns' The Warthis week and it struck me how awesome America used to be.

[Denny]

Yes, I saw a couple of episodes and it was both tragic and heartwarming at the same time to see the tremendous sacrifices and the team work and humanity displayed.

The allies were willing to give the war everything they could throw at it, to speed it up and get it over. That included enlisting, salvaging every possible piece of metal and rubber, even grease and paper, and working long hours and cutting their use of goods to the bone.

Would Americans be willing to cut their use of gasoline to 3 gallons per week today? Yes, if they really believed in the wars being fought.

That is why I am pessimistic about the Iraq and Afghanistan situations. I see this being sold as an "easy" thing. If we are so chintzy with the level of troops and the quality of military equipment sent there, then just how important are these places? If its a calculated "bet" kind of thing, then that sounds like imperialism, not idealism, not a real fight for survival.

I think if George Bush could improve his persuasive abilities it would help. Every time he talks he seems insincere, either because I think he's making things up, or else because he seems to lack knowledge of the real picture. I think if he could get some kind of coaching on his personal communication skills it may help, he's no Roosevelt, that is for sure. Also, if he could at least brush up more on history and pick up a knowledge of past mistakes made. Also, get some independence from the perceived "military-industrial complex". Perhaps he should ask Dick Cheney to go, he inspires no sense of patriotism.

[Chesire]

Anedoctal musings . A family friend who is a WW2 vet told me straight up that enlisting beat the hell out of a lot of entry level jobs at the time. Jobs where getting maimed and or killed were a real and constant danger. Farming , logging , factories , fishing and where if you did get killed you got jack shit as opposed to what uncle sam gave your family back then.

[Carlhole]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Chesire', 'A')nedoctal musings . A family friend who is a WW2 vet told me straight up that enlisting beat the hell out of a lot of entry level jobs at the time. Jobs where getting maimed and or killed were a real and constant danger. Farming , logging , factories , fishing and where if you did get killed you got jack shit as opposed to what uncle sam gave your family back then.

[Denny]

This is a contrasting view from the war years of the society America has become in the 21st century, for sure we'll find a hard time digging up those "$1 a year" executives who served in WW2:

See Detroit News: "Cha-ching! Pay skyrockets for the top 50"

Michigan's top-paid corporate executives are raking in nearly double what they made in 2001 at a time when deep economic turmoil has cost tens of thousands of workers their jobs.

The average compensation of the Fortunate 50 -- The Detroit News' ranking of the most highly paid executives at Michigan's publicly traded companies -- was $7.1 million in 2006, up 88 percent over 2001 or more than seven times the rate of inflation.

The average weekly compensation of a Michigan Fortunate 50 member is 174 times that of what the average Michigan worker collected in 2006, $784.34 a week.

By contrast, Mulally's 2006 package worked out to $541,990 a week over a year, while Manoogian earned $332,560 weekly.


Bear in mind, Mulaly is a hired gun, he did not have any equity in Ford before coming on to the scene.

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Denny', '.').. I am pessimistic about the Iraq and Afghanistan situations. I see this being sold as an "easy" thing.

[TommyJefferson]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Denny', 'I')f its a calculated "bet" kind of thing, then that sounds like imperialism, not idealism, not a real fight for survival.

[Blacksmith]

I was a different time, we had just come out of the depression and dare I say it Americans were a different people.

[lawnchair]

I've been watching some too. One factor that made a huge difference is that we (Texas, mostly) poured some 7 billion barrels of crude into the war. Probably our biggest ace-in-the-hole.

Of course, 7 Gbbl doesn't seem that improbable now (about the US annual consumption in recent years). But, that was a lot of oil for the time... 25 times what the Germans could burn, even with Fischer-Tropsch.

With declining domestic production, we simply couldn't fuel a conventional war on that scale again. Nukes would fly for that reason alone.

[Denny]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('lawnchair', 'I')'ve been watching some too. One factor that made a huge difference is that we (Texas, mostly) poured some 7 billion barrels of crude into the war. Probably our biggest ace-in-the-hole.