PeakOil is You
Does anyone miss MonteQuest...?
Re: Does anyone miss MonteQuest...?
by Ayame » Tue 18 Sep 2007, 05:03:12
I miss Jack. He doesn't post like he used too. I sometimes wonder if he is busy transferring his stash of weapons and ammo into an underground bunker somewhere.
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Re: Does anyone miss MonteQuest...?
by jupiters_release » Tue 18 Sep 2007, 05:21:56
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JPL', 'M')onte screwed up with the 'die-off' sketch. If you look at village India, or several African states, they don't use a lot of oil to support a high population density. Spread that level of use across the First World and no-one has a 'die-off' problem for a very long time yet
JP
JP
I think of places like NYC when you mention 'high population density' and there's no village India level of energy use that'll sustain millions of people packed in a few square miles. Die-off as Montequest says is an ecological and geological certainty. When and where will always be uncertain though with such a complex global infrastructure.
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Re: Does anyone miss MonteQuest...?
by wisconsin_cur » Tue 18 Sep 2007, 05:24:24
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ayame', 'I') miss Jack. He doesn't post like he used too. I sometimes wonder if he is busy transferring his stash of weapons and ammo into an underground bunker somewhere.
I just hope the underground bunker is no where near my house!
http://www.thenewfederalistpapers.com
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Re: Does anyone miss MonteQuest...?
by Battle_Scarred_Galactico » Tue 18 Sep 2007, 07:24:38
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JPL', 'M')onte screwed up with the 'die-off' sketch. If you look at village India, or several African states, they don't use a lot of oil to support a high population density. The little they DO have, they use very carefully.
Spread that level of use across the First World and no-one has a 'die-off' problem for a very long time yet - IF we have the collective balls to share resources.
Spread that level of use across the First World and no-one has a 'die-off' problem for a very long time yet - IF we have the collective balls to share resources.
Yer, if you cut out ALL oil use except agriculture maybe.
Even with that massive 'if' things would be totally unrecognisable and most regular peoples' idea of total doom.
Nice try though.
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Re: Does anyone miss MonteQuest...?
by Ebyss » Tue 18 Sep 2007, 11:15:08
With all due respect, I don't think you fully "got" what Monte was saying about die-off. It's not because of peak oil, it's because of overshoot. And die-off is happening on the planet right now where there are areas of overpopulation and scant resources - whether it's because of starvation, disease or fighting. You didn't think he meant 5 billion people were going to suddenly drop dead overnight, did you?
Die-off has always happened on this planet, always. The fact that it hasn't happened in the last few hundred years to any great extent within the Western world is meaningless on the grand scale of things.
It's just that now we're so far beyond our natural carrying capacity, that when we are no longer able to maintain the inputs that got us there, people will die - again not all at once, and not just because there's no oil. It's much more subtle and insidious than that.
I miss Monte.
Die-off has always happened on this planet, always. The fact that it hasn't happened in the last few hundred years to any great extent within the Western world is meaningless on the grand scale of things.
It's just that now we're so far beyond our natural carrying capacity, that when we are no longer able to maintain the inputs that got us there, people will die - again not all at once, and not just because there's no oil. It's much more subtle and insidious than that.
I miss Monte.
We've tried nothin' and we're all out of ideas.
I am only one. I can only do what one can do. But what one can do, I will do. -- John Seymour.
I am only one. I can only do what one can do. But what one can do, I will do. -- John Seymour.
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Re: Does anyone miss MonteQuest...?
by davep » Tue 18 Sep 2007, 11:30:58
Has he made some sort of proclamation about leaving? If not, he does have a right to holidays...
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ebyss', 'W')ith all due respect, I don't think you fully "got" what Monte was saying about die-off.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ebyss', 'W')ith all due respect, I don't think you fully "got" what Monte was saying about die-off.
With all due respect, Monte kept insisting to newbies that it was "basic biology" that we are in overshoot. This is far from the truth.
We may be using phantom carrying capacity to achieve our current population levels. However, this does not mean that the actual carrying capacity is necessarily lower than current population levels. Carrying capacity is a not-very-useful absolute limit based on available resources. It should have only one value globally at an given time, as it is a theoretical limit. However, studies vary so much in their estimates that his assertions of us being in overshoot were untrue.
I don't miss Monte, because I prefer people with open minds and a positive outlook. Monte has been fixated on overpopulation for 35 years.
When people have their PO epiphany and come here, we don't want them getting bullied into inaction and desperation when there is a lot that each one of us can do to pave the way for a sustainable future.
What we think, we become.
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