[Ludi]

Why is it so important to take a big stinking dump on any positive idea or suggestion?


I almost put this in the HOF so I could name names and say "fuck you, you negative fuck heads" but I was afraid that would be negative.



So, let's discuss negativity and what it does for you, how it makes you feel better or whatever benefit you derive from it. Do you feel it helps you personally, or does it help others? Is it just a reflex or is it an intentional philosophy?




Maybe if I understand it better, it won't make me so angry.

[dinopello]

In a way, this is like asking "why do you beat your spouse so hard"?

Actually it is a good topic to explore. My ex-wife was pretty negative about all the small things in life you have to deal with. However, she actually was pretty good when a real crisis hit.

Part of my job is to identify all the actual and potential things that can go wrong with a system. I'm very good at it, and it comes naturally to me. However, it really feels good to me when I can relax and see all the good things that do happen all the time. I think I like the contrast - like many things in life.

People that are negative all the time on everything, I just don't know how they survive. Maybe they get positive on negativity.

[Grifter]

I'm pretty positive in my day to day life, and a little like dinopello I spot problems before they happen in my work life, well mostly anyway.

I feel positive when I talk and play with my godson. I think he'll be ok really. He even said to me the other day that he didn't want to work. I tried to explain that he was free and that choice would have consiquences but if work seemed the worst possible thing in the world then he wouldn't have to do it. Like, he's only 6 so I'm sure he'll be working in the future. I remember being scared of work, right up until I was about 15 - 16.

I am very gloomy about the future but only when I'm thinking specifically about that. When I was young I was always trying to talk about topics rather than sport or gossip and the reaction I got was almost always negative. It wasn't me who was negative but rather the attitude to change that others have that was negative.

There are so many 'others' and so few 'us' that I always feel negative when pondering our future. However that doesn't mean I hate people, I love us and the amazing things we do.

I just wish people could think in more abstract or complex ways.

[americandream]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'W')hy is it so important to take a big stinking dump on any positive idea or suggestion?


I almost put this in the HOF so I could name names and say "fuck you, you negative fuck heads" but I was afraid that would be negative.



So, let's discuss negativity and what it does for you, how it makes you feel better or whatever benefit you derive from it. Do you feel it helps you personally, or does it help others? Is it just a reflex or is it an intentional philosophy?




Maybe if I understand it better, it won't make me so angry.

I'ld hardly call it pessimism, rather a different perspective on the scope of the problem.

[Byron100]

Interesting topic, Ludi, and one that I'm glad you started

For me, negativity is knowing a future that most people do not know, or flat-out deny even if they really do "know." For me, being negative is being born 100 years too soon, and living in a world that I know to be totally unsustainable...a world of mixed-up value systems, ecological destruction and war that seems to know no end.

When I was a kid, I saw all the new stuff being built, and wondered how long this could go on. Until the whole country was paved over? I wondered how long the oil would last, I wondered how people would survive when there were too many people and too few jobs. When I was a kid, I looked ahead into the future and saw the US fighting endless wars over the black stuff we just had to have, for how could we continue our way of life without it??

And now, at the age of 40, I see all of these things coming true, and yes, it does make me negative, angry, depressed and all other kinds of emotions in between (look at some my earlier posts on here, and you can see what I mean...LOL). BUT, I do see the positive side of things, and I know there is reason to hope. Somewhere, somehow, somewhen, there will always be reason to hope that we will someday "get things right." And like I told a friend a long time ago, I will stop being depressed when the rest of the world goes into depression, and I still think this to be true, as I will finally be living in my own element.

Now, in this time, work ("a job") is the worst thing in the world (kudos to your godson, Grifter...he must have a bit of me in him...LOL), in the coming depression, work will probably be the best thing in the world, as I'll be doing things that I find to be extremely rewarding. So I spend my endless free time learning as much as I can about everything and getting ready for what I know is soon to come...and learning how to decouple myself from the materialistic world around me, and I do have to say that it's really starting to pay off, especially as more and more people realize the futility of being enslaved to "things" and "status".

Ludi, I just want to give a big serving of praise to you for doing what you feel is right, and being positive for the rest of us. Yeah, I know this must feel like hand-to-hand combat warfare sometimes, but like someone said over on the HousingBubbleBlog once, you gotta count your victories when you can, even if it's one person at a time. And yes, your cause is definitely one of inspiration to many. Whatever you may do, whatever may come of all this, please don't ever give up fighting the good fight (sheds a tear or two...)

[JPL]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'W')hy is it so important to take a big stinking dump on any positive idea or suggestion?


I almost put this in the HOF so I could name names and say "fuck you, you negative fuck heads" but I was afraid that would be negative.



So, let's discuss negativity and what it does for you, how it makes you feel better or whatever benefit you derive from it. Do you feel it helps you personally, or does it help others? Is it just a reflex or is it an intentional philosophy?




Maybe if I understand it better, it won't make me so angry.

[Ferretlover]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'I') almost put this in the HOF so I could name names and say "fuck you, you negative fuck heads" but I was afraid that would be negative.

[Ludi]

Thanks for all the input!


Re: "compulsive optimist" yeah, that's a good call, pstarr. I have to work hard to be positive. It's easy for me to get overwhelmed by negativity and depression. Other people seem to revel in it, and that's what gets me down here sometimes. It's hard for me to see the benefit in deliberately being negative. You know I often post about how I think we're screwed and how I'm pretty sure I'm personally screwed, but yet, I guess I come off as an optimist, which is actually pretty funny to me! I just don't personally see the benefit in posting in every thread "we're screwed."


I realised somthing soon after posting this thread, that the anger I feel about the negativity here on the board is a reflex to avoid feeling despair. I push aside the despair with anger, which isn't healthy either.


Re: using "negativity" to spot problems/weaknesses in a plan. Both my husband and I do that a lot, he's especially very good at it. Though he doesn't seem like a negative person, he's very capable of spotting potential problems or accidents waiting to happen.

[Ludi]

My husband's current favorite aphorism:



"To succeed, you must first visualize failure."



He says he likes it because it "flies in the face of The Secret and all that crap."

[Aaron]

Why is positivity important to you?

[Ludi]

Already answered that question, Aaron.


It's a matter of survival. Why is survival important to me? Because it's important to my husband.

[Aaron]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'A')lready answered that question, Aaron.


It's a matter of survival. Why is survival important to me? Because it's important to my husband.

[Zardoz]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dinopello', 'I')n a way, this is like asking "why do you beat your spouse so hard"?

[wisconsin_cur]

I was having some discussion with a co-worker and once I gave my read on it his response was, "Deeply cynical... probably right but cynical."

I would rather be right than either pessimistic or optimistic. This is not to say that I am always right only that I would prefer it. If I see a problem I point it out or avoid it. It I see an opportunity I seize it (and then point it out).

If I have a bad argument (i.e. my negativity is unfounded) either point it out and make me look like a fool or ignore me and let me make a fool out of myself. If you are confident in your optimism, there should be no reason to swear or throw the discussion into the HOF.

Negativity is of no value. Trying to see things as they are means everything.

[Bas]

do you mean negative/pessimistic about the future or negative in the way people treat eachother on the forum? I don't think the former warrents the latter, but they do seem to go hand in hand quite often. Also I think it's a quality of the internet that makes people treat eachother in a more negative way than they might do in "meatspace".

[Ludi]

Aaron, I think you misunderstand me. I'm talking about my personal survival, not anyone else's.

My "positivity" for me keeps me from committing suicide. I don't expect my positivity has much effect on other people except those looking for positivity, who may find themselves less despairing if they read something positive here.

I actually take this stuff seriously. For other people this board may be a game, for me it isn't. I assume we're talking about real things that may really happen. If I dwell on the negativity of that, it drives me to despair, so I don't dwell on it. This is a conscious decision. I honestly don't see the value in dwelling on the "we're screwed" aspect of things, personally. So far, nobody has given a compelling (for me) explanation of the value of negativity (or "reality" as some like to call it).





Wisconsin-cur, it should be clear I am in no way "confident" in my optimism. I have a tenuous hold on it at best.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Zardoz', '"')Why are you so damned negative about so many things?"

[Ludi]

You see in my posts my confusion about these issues - about what is real and what is not, when I talk about taking this board seriously and the discussion of "real things that may really happen" and then talking about the reality of now (which is the only "real" reality).


These are difficult issues for me.

[Heineken]

Like positivity, negativity may be a form of mental modeling. By exaggerating certain trends and characteristics of the world, we vicariously "experience" alternative forms of reality, including diverse possible futures.

My worldview is increasingly negative because facts and events seem to increasingly validate that attitude. I could be wrong, but that is my perception.

An important thing about negativity is not to internalize it. You seem to have difficulty with that, Ludi.

I will continue to find joy in this vale of tears even on its final day, in the unlikely even that I should live to see it. At the same time, my view that we're headed for the ashcan is unshakeable.

Just owning a dog is reason enough for me to want to live another day.