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Best Government (or lack of it) after PO

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General interest discussions, not necessarily related to depletion.
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What is the Best Government (or lack of it) after PO?

Anarchy
11
No votes
Ecotopia
4
No votes
Democracy
2
No votes
Comunism
1
No votes
other
9
No votes
 
Total votes : 27

Re: Best Government (or lack of it) after PO

Unread postby Offshore » Mon 03 Sep 2007, 23:27:10

I put other.

The best form of government is a Constitutional Republic such as we had in the United States.

Thomas Hobbes pretty much obliterates the idea of anarchy.
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Re: Best Government (or lack of it) after PO

Unread postby Plantagenet » Mon 03 Sep 2007, 23:33:30

I voted democracy, on the assumption the person who put the poll together didn't realize that the US and other western governments are republics, not democracies. 8)
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Re: Best Government (or lack of it) after PO

Unread postby Plantagenet » Mon 03 Sep 2007, 23:43:24

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('zensui', 'g')overnments have failed many times ...


And you think anarchy has always been successful? :P
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Re: Best Government (or lack of it) after PO

Unread postby ECM » Tue 04 Sep 2007, 00:07:23

I chose anarchy. Human society needs a total reset. For that to happen the long standing social, political, and economic systems need to be completely wiped out. All those families that have held power for centuries need to be reduced to the level of commoners. In addition, a nice culling of the human herd is in order.

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Re: Best Government (or lack of it) after PO

Unread postby Tanada » Tue 04 Sep 2007, 07:02:52

Absolute monarchy, it is where we are headed in any case.
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One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
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Re: Best Government (or lack of it) after PO

Unread postby Narz » Fri 07 Sep 2007, 04:02:52

Some kind of ecotopia would be ideal. I don't think human beings can handle anarchy (just as they cannot handle Communism).

The ideal eco-village would have the best of libertarianism as well as some voluntary socialistic aspects.
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Re: Best Government (or lack of it) after PO

Unread postby Fredrik » Fri 07 Sep 2007, 04:15:08

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('zensui', 'I') voted for Anarchy. [---] There may be community property (ie: free and open source software, creative commons art, literature and music) unencumbered by (il)legalities like patents, copyright, etc.

I definitely agree that patents and copyrights will be forgotten. But in the post-cheap energy world, so will be software and most literature.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('zensui', 'A')lso, true human mind and nature will be seen (no hypocrisy). We will have to learn to trust known people without the "legal back-up".

How about unknown people - strangers from another town, another tribe...? In an actual anarchy, I'd rather expect people will learn, the hard way, not to trust people outside their own local survival-based community. Shortages of basic necessities + lots of humans with a natural survival instinct + no legal enforcement = a big violent mess. And eventually some kind of democratic or despotic local/regional/national rule, anyway.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('zensui', 'T')he problem with it (and all kind of governments), is that governments have failed many times (Nazi Germany, NeoCon USA) and shouldn't be trusted.

What's the alternative? Forming an independent group of like-minded people... only to be subjugated/exploited/exterminated by a bigger group of less idealistic, more pragmatic people?
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Re: Best Government (or lack of it) after PO

Unread postby Fredrik » Thu 13 Sep 2007, 16:59:53

Man did I mess up my posts...

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('zensui', 'S')o basically the problem is wars. It's the same with other forms of goverments. Cann't you imagine a world with no armies and no goverments (de-militarization comes first)?


Sure I can imagine a world without armies and governments. It's a world populated by a few million hunter-gatherers. With agriculture and more complex social entities (a necessity for progress in science, medicine, living standards, etc.), you need a government to regulate the functions of the entity, and to uphold justice. You're also bound to have tribal/national conflict or at least anticipation of such conflict, which makes the army a necessity.
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Re: Best Government (or lack of it) after PO

Unread postby Bas » Thu 13 Sep 2007, 17:43:59

Democracy, but not American style, which is not a Democracy in my book but Dutch style where almost 20 parties are in parliament and you actually have something to choose and where parties are forced to make compromises (and people don't throw mud because they know they have to work with eachother). Might not be a good system to wage aggresive war with though.
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Re: Best Government (or lack of it) after PO

Unread postby Tyler_JC » Thu 13 Sep 2007, 17:48:28

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ferrelgiraffe', 'S')o when a mean hunter starts raping the women, a few neighbors join together in a pact and take care of him, forming communities, cities and states. Probably never will form a country, not enough oil to travel that far anyway.
If Wash DC disappears and all the state capitals, do we have a government, or does the constitution expire? Also, are we free to copy any book we want after that? Just getting ready...

What makes you think the various state, local, and federal government agencies will collapse post peak? The United States was a fully functioning Republic for more than a century before the invention of the first oil-fueled vehicle.

The argument that a shortfall in transport fuel production will lead to a collapse of the federal government, let alone the state/local governments is utterly ludicrous. If the government eliminated some of its welfare operations and focused on security, transportation, and national defense...there will be no noticeable difference in the strength of the government. Most of the budget currently goes to a combination of Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security.

What makes you think those programs are going to continue to be funded as tax revenue dries up? There will be cuts to public assistance programs of all kinds. But that does NOT mean that the federal government has "collapsed."

Moreover, why does the existence of a nationstate (a country) depend on the existence of oil? The US controlled all of its current territory (and certainly controlled all 50 of the states) in the pre-oil era. Was that a time of anarchy? :roll:
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Re: Best Government (or lack of it) after PO

Unread postby SDC » Thu 13 Sep 2007, 20:33:08

Me, I've always liked the idea of citystates run by direct democracy grouped into loose coalitions.
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Re: Best Government (or lack of it) after PO

Unread postby Tyler_JC » Fri 14 Sep 2007, 12:41:09

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')ts called the doomsday machine, and it will be set off.

The bombers could be loaded with the fully op Tzar bomb(the one they tested was only 50 megs this one will have U238 casing and it will be 112 megatons each, that is why they will use the bombers, and they will just fly them to the target and wont even drop them, just set them off at groundburst. ONE of them will take out half a state.


Where is that coming from?

Did the T-virus escape from Umbrella Corp's laboratory again? :roll:

If you honestly believe that peak oil will lead to global anarchy, I highly suggest you sell your computer, cancel your cable, and buy guns. Lots and lots of guns. And bullets too.

By the way, in your scenario, where would the bombers get their jet fuel?
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Re: Best Government (or lack of it) after PO

Unread postby lateralus » Sun 16 Sep 2007, 03:55:45

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ECM', 'A')ll those families that have held power for centuries need to be reduced to the level of commoners.

[smilie=qleft1.gif] [smilie=XXreindeer.gif] [smilie=XXreindeer.gif] [smilie=XXreindeer.gif]


Amen to that.

I don't know about the rest of you but I wouldn't mind raising my own army and becoming King Lat I. You can pass into my kingdom if you bring chickens, toilet paper, or porno magazines.
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Re: Best Government (or lack of it) after PO

Unread postby bodigami » Thu 20 Sep 2007, 22:02:13

Other is second place; what other options should be added? republic? monarchy? theocracy?
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