[Ayoob]

http://www.bitterrootsolar.com/solar/standalone.htm

They seem to have a nice array of products. The top-end one is about $32,000.

What are all these parts, are they any good, is there another contractor you like better? I want to use an electric car, do you think a system like this would be enough to do such a thing?

[gnm]

The top end one is huge (48 75 watt panels?!) - I can handle my total consumption with 16-20 100watt panels. thats covering all household loads but not a vehicle. I should mention that I am in a really good area for solar however. I would guess that a system this large could probably run a small efficient house and have some left over for moderate EV use. The trace/xantrex inverters are good but I'd take a looksee at the outback systems first. The C40 charge controls are a poor choice for a system this large and not nearly as efficient as an MPPT outback mx60 type.

Larger panels rather than more might also be a better choice since you have less interconnects and mounting issues. i.e. 24 150watt panels instead of 48 75 watt panels. Less systemic losses.

I should also mention that current prices per watt for a DIY PV setup are about $5.00/watt so for that larger system that would come to $18,000 just for the panels. Inverters like that bought the cheapest would run about $2500.00 each and a C40 charge control goes for about $150.00. Racks are expensive (I built my own out of channel strut) and so in short I would say that the equipment alone in this large setup would run about $25000.00 if you bought it yourself.

-G

[WisJim]

A curious mix of junky stuff (the Air 403 wind generators are not serious units) and quality components. The best way to figure out what kind of system you need is to make a complete inventory of your electrical use, potential future loads, and ways to reduce your consumption, and consult with a legitimate solar designer and discuss your needs, desires, and expectations. For example, wind machines are not for everyo9ne and certainly not for every site. What kind of batteries is the system using? etc etc (I've been using wind power since 1977 and PVs since 1982)

[gnm]

Yes batteries would be important to research. They are the weak link in modern PV systems for sure. I have used standard deep cycle wet cells but have since switched to AGM's - way less trouble. I would recommend an AGM forklift battery.

-G

[gnm]

The air403 is old in any case. It has been replaced by the air-X which is a little better in that it doesn't "furl" with a sound like a dying donkey which the 403 does.

They have their place in gathering storm type winds but are not anywhere near as effective as a larger one. More of a novelty that produces a little extra power. Probably more trouble than it is worth. I know this from first hand experience with my neighbors 403...

-G

[Offshore]

The doomer crowd here hates solar power because it's sustainable and it works. In fact, the doomers here hate any alternative energy that doesn't lead directly to Mad Max 2: The Road Warrior.

[basil_hayden]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Offshore', 'T')he doomer crowd here hates solar power because it's sustainable and it works. In fact, the doomers here hate any alternative energy that doesn't lead directly to Mad Max 2: The Road Warrior.

[Offshore]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('basil_hayden', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Offshore', 'T')he doomer crowd here hates solar power because it's sustainable and it works. In fact, the doomers here hate any alternative energy that doesn't lead directly to Mad Max 2: The Road Warrior.

[Blacksmith]

Now I am no smart type, but what I have been able to find out is as follows.

(1) To supply the electrical needs of average home you will have a front end capital cost of between $40,000 and $70,000.

(2) Solar cells are about 10% efficient and have a life of anywhere from 3 to 8 years.

(3) Batteries arre also a weak link with a life expectency of 5 to 10 years.

If anyone can add to this I would appreciate the information as I am very interested in developing solar power on a private scale.

[lawnchair]

Step number one is to get serious about how many 'negawatts' you can stand. Any efficiency you can make is *always* cheaper than building/maintaining additional solar power. If you can't conserve, it gets expensive fast. I have met people who tried to build enough capacity to run a g*d-damned electric clothes dryer, a dishwasher, and two plasma TVs.

I live in an area that gets pretty hot (Kansas) in the summer. My fiancee is adamant about needing AC to sleep (the things we do for the ladies). But, what we did is utilized a very small north-facing room (9'x10') for sleeping. We lofted the bed for usable desk space below. We store clothes, etc, in other rooms. We use a small efficient window unit, and that is the only room we A/C.

Between that and everything else I do, the last bill, in the heat of the 100-degree summer was 590 kWh for 30 days ($48 total bill). That doesn't include a well-pump if you need one (a notable energy drain).

Try line-drying your clothes, clean/re-gasket or even replace your fridge, etc, to see how small a system you can get away with. Get a Kill-a-Watt meter and go crazy finding out where you can save a few.

[PenultimateManStanding]

I really have to wonder about these conversations amongst people who are supposedly peak oil aware. What good would it do you to have electricity in your house if you can't drive to the store and buy food?

[Offshore]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', 'I') really have to wonder about these conversations amongst people who are supposedly peak oil aware. What good would it do you to have electricity in your house if you can't drive to the store and buy food?

[PenultimateManStanding]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Offshore', '
')Learn to farm?

Why can't you drive to the store? No alternative fuel?

[Offshore]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', 'W')hat alternative fuels?

[WisJim]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Blacksmith', 'N')ow I am no smart type, but what I have been able to find out is as follows.

(1) To supply the electrical needs of average home you will have a front end capital cost of between $40,000 and $70,000.

(2) Solar cells are about 10% efficient and have a life of anywhere from 3 to 8 years.

(3) Batteries arre also a weak link with a life expectency of 5 to 10 years.

If anyone can add to this I would appreciate the information as I am very interested in developing solar power on a private scale.

[Ayoob]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('WisJim', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Blacksmith', 'N')ow I am no smart type,

True dat.

[Madpaddy]

Good advice from GNM about the panels. Go for fewer and larger panels to reduce connections etc.

You need to work out your daily usage in watts = A. Find out the peak sun hours for your area. =B.

Roughly: PV system required = A/B / 0.7 (factor to allow for non-ideal conditions)

Battery bank required = Daily consumption (wH) / system voltage = C (Amp hours Ah)

Cx (number of days of storage) x 0.8 (assuming a maximum discharge of 80%, this varies for different batteries) = Ah of battery bank.

[MD]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('lawnchair', '.')... Any efficiency you can make is *always* cheaper than building/maintaining additional solar power. If you can't conserve, it gets expensive fast...