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THE Topic of Abortion Thread (merged)

Discussions related to the physiological and psychological effects of peak oil on our members and future generations.

Re: What do you prefer: Communism or Abortion rights?

Unread postby smallpoxgirl » Fri 11 May 2007, 20:56:59

This is a dumb poll. Abortion is good. It's laudable. More people should be doing it. What you have labeled "communism" is in fact "totalitarianism".
"We were standing on the edges
Of a thousand burning bridges
Sifting through the ashes every day
What we thought would never end
Now is nothing more than a memory
The way things were before
I lost my way" - OCMS
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Re: Why Abortion is a good thing

Unread postby napoleon » Fri 15 Jun 2007, 13:28:41

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EnergyUnlimited', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')hy Abortion is a good thing

Because it could prevent you from writting garbage here.
Sadly it had failed on this account.



:lol:




It failed in your case as well, but that was funny just the same.
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Re: Why Abortion is a good thing

Unread postby Denny » Fri 15 Jun 2007, 13:54:39

We have become so addicted to to money and the good things it buys that we have lost sight of the more enduring, more spiritual rewards that come from the sacrifices it takes to raise a family.

We all need to diminish our egos and find our part in the great plan that God has for us.
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Re: Why Abortion is a good thing

Unread postby TWilliam » Fri 15 Jun 2007, 18:23:53

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ClassicSpiderman', 'A')bortion is not the end of the world, it's the end of THEM.


You ignore the fact that continuous increase of the population of the stupid consumption-oriented ones eventually leads to the same fate thru wanton destruction of the resource base.

And incidentally, pro-abortionists don't necessarily not reproduce...
"It means buckle your seatbelt, Dorothy, because Kansas? Is goin' bye-bye... "
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Re: Why Abortion is a good thing

Unread postby jboogy » Fri 15 Jun 2007, 18:38:12

Napolean, you pulled out this tired , lame ,moldy oldy to write "it failed in your case as well , but it's funny just the same"? come on dude, at least try to fake an honest effort. really man , give us an original thought. some analyses from a perspective that we might not have heard before. You should at least be able to manage some pointless venom with a subject as rich as abortion, no?
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Re: Why Abortion is a good thing

Unread postby Madpaddy » Fri 15 Jun 2007, 19:29:28

Did you hear about the Irish Abortion clinic?

It has a twleve month waiting list.
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Re: Why Abortion is a good thing

Unread postby napoleon » Fri 15 Jun 2007, 19:57:55

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jboogy', 'N')apolean, you pulled out this tired , lame ,moldy oldy to write "it failed in your case as well , but it's funny just the same"? come on dude, at least try to fake an honest effort. really man , give us an original thought. some analyses from a perspective that we might not have heard before. You should at least be able to manage some pointless venom with a subject as rich as abortion, no?


Wow...

I was just complementing him on his wit man, and trying to resurrect a subject at the same time.

geesh, you have a way of making a guy feel welcomed.


Let me see; if you don't like my posts, how about you fuck off and leave alone? Does that sound like a plan to you?

Oh but wait, that's an oldy as well (but always a classic you have to admit).

How about this for something original:
May the moldy fingers of a million aborted babies rip you to pieces from the inside while singing 'Black Sabbath' type lullabies in your ears.

happy now?








Fuck off just the same will ya? I think it's the only thing that'll make both of us happy in the end.
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Re: Why Abortion is a good thing

Unread postby napoleon » Fri 15 Jun 2007, 20:00:42

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TWilliam', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ClassicSpiderman', '
')And incidentally, pro-abortionists don't necessarily not reproduce...


Maybe not but you have to admit they do tend to reproduce 'less'. You have to look at kids as a long term investment from their young days as parasites to their adult lives when you can live off them by using a sentiment of overwhlemingly crushing guilt.
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Re: Why Abortion is a good thing

Unread postby napoleon » Fri 15 Jun 2007, 20:03:09

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Madpaddy', 'D')id you hear about the Irish Abortion clinic?

It has a twleve month waiting list.


Careful, another one like that and jboogy's might get on your case. If he keeps it up they might make him into a moderator.
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Re: Why Abortion is a good thing

Unread postby TWilliam » Fri 15 Jun 2007, 20:21:22

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('napoleon', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TWilliam', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ClassicSpiderman', '
')And incidentally, pro-abortionists don't necessarily not reproduce...


Maybe not but you have to admit they do tend to reproduce 'less'. You have to look at kids as a long term investment from their young days as parasites to their adult lives when you can live off them by using a sentiment of overwhlemingly crushing guilt.


No need to use the guilt thing on them. Just vote Republican and let the gov steal it for you... :wink:
"It means buckle your seatbelt, Dorothy, because Kansas? Is goin' bye-bye... "
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Re: Why Abortion is a good thing

Unread postby jboogy » Fri 15 Jun 2007, 21:32:50

That's more like it Napolean, more in line of what I expected of you.
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Re: Why Abortion is a good thing

Unread postby napoleon » Fri 15 Jun 2007, 23:06:54

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jboogy', 'T')hat's more like it Napolean, more in line of what I expected of you.


So you're not going to fuck off?

Darn it, that's not what I expected of you.













I've learned to live with disapointment. Carry on.
:(
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Re: Why Abortion is a good thing

Unread postby entropyfails » Sat 16 Jun 2007, 00:54:48

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ClassicSpiderman', 'C')ultural conservatives lament the fact that in most industrialized countries, political support for abortion is about 60% to 80%. They surmise, 'How could societies which believe in killing their offspring survive?'


And the 80% who disagree with that logic think of the population thinks, "Why would 20% of the population want to have children when they are not ready? " One group is thinking about the individual quality of life and the other group accepts a lesser quality of life for a larger population. Your conservative group that feels that only the number of humans count is a non-evolutionary stable strategy in an era of increased technological power.

How can we prove this is non-stable? We need to chart the destructive power of the individual along with the number of dissatisfied individuals in the society.

Tech Power Chart
1 person maximum kill in a single incident
Time | Kills
-----------------
-10k 10
0 20
1600 50
1800 100
1900 1000
1940 3000
1950 1,000,000
1960 10,000,000
1990 1,000,000,000
2020 10,000,000,000

As time goes on... the disaffected become far more powerful. I'll run a couple numbers to prove my point.

Obviously, the average disaffected murder amount is far less than the theoretical maximum. I'll use 4000 people as a fair number for the next few years. I've also used the rates of murderously disaffected people (approximately) from the US and the number of murderously violent people in the middle east for the conservative society model.

Case A: Abortion Society

Pop 200,000,000
Murderously Disaffected : 0.00009% aprox
Psycho's per year: .66
Deaths Per Year: 2,600

Case B: Conservative Society

Pop 400,000,000
Murderously Disaffected : 0.00016% aprox
Psychos per year: 666
Deaths Per Year: 2,664,000


As time goes on, this discrepancy in disaffected people becomes even more critical. The conservative position of "be fruitful and multiply endlessly" simply has no stability in human evolution. Scientists even have a term for it, overshoot.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ClassicSpiderman', '
')Abortion is nature's way of getting rid of the genetic chaff--a sort of collective self-imposed suicide for it's adherents. Abortion is not the end of the world, it's the end of THEM.


To believe this logic you must first believe that there is a genetic component to willingness to get an abortion. No such genetic link has ever been shown and there is no real way for such a deep cognitive issue in modern humans to have a genetic basis. Therefore, your entire post is complete nonsense. (In as much as both your point about societies survival has been shown false and by revealing your unstated premise that abortion decisions have some genetic basis to select on.)

But no one is surprised when a fundamentalist fails to understand evolution.
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Re: Why Abortion is a good thing

Unread postby katkinkate » Sat 16 Jun 2007, 01:47:52

Humans have always had ways to control their population growth when resources were tight. It was usually controlled at the family level, when the family felt they didn't have the resources for another baby or the baby is deformed. Either prevent the births (contraception, sexual control of women), abortion of unwanted births (herbal, medical, surgical or a swift kick in the guts), infanticide (usually by leaving the newbord baby out on a hillside to die from exposure and/or be eaten by the local wildlife) or selling the child off to slavers/ adoption agencies.

From my perspective either contraception or abortion in early pregnancy seems to be the most desirable / less cruel options.

Humans have always had reasons from time to time to kill their babies. It's just that over the last 100 years or so in the west we've been prosperous enough as a society that the usual reasons (lack of food/ water, need to be mobile, lack of room) haven't been as ubiquitous and so we've forgotten.
Kind regards, Katkinkate

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Re: Why Abortion is a good thing

Unread postby TWilliam » Sat 16 Jun 2007, 14:08:06

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('katkinkate', 'H')umans have always had ways to control their population growth when resources were tight. It was usually controlled at the family level, when the family felt they didn't have the resources for another baby or the baby is deformed. Either prevent the births (contraception, sexual control of women), abortion of unwanted births (herbal, medical, surgical or a swift kick in the guts), infanticide (usually by leaving the newbord baby out on a hillside to die from exposure and/or be eaten by the local wildlife) or selling the child off to slavers/ adoption agencies.

From my perspective either contraception or abortion in early pregnancy seems to be the most desirable / less cruel options.

Humans have always had reasons from time to time to kill their babies. It's just that over the last 100 years or so in the west we've been prosperous enough as a society that the usual reasons (lack of food/ water, need to be mobile, lack of room) haven't been as ubiquitous and so we've forgotten.


Spot on KKK. As I've mentioned before when this topic comes up, killing off the young is a common response of many (if not all) higher lifeforms to resource constraints - mainly famine - because growing young are the largest consumers of energy in terms of food/bodyweight ratios. It takes far less energy to maintain a mature breeding pair, and thus their potential offspring, until conditions improve. In short, infanticide is a species survival mechanism.

Funny thing about the OP's theory is that without the support of technological civilization, it's actually the smart ones who would survive and prosper in the long run because Darwinian "survival of the fittest (read smartest, most adaptable)" would again become the primary factor rather than who could collect the largest welfare check by spitting out as many kids as possible.
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Re: Why Abortion is a good thing

Unread postby Denny » Sun 17 Jun 2007, 00:05:26

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('katkinkate', 'H')umans have always had ways to control their population growth when resources were tight.


Its almost humourous to consider the resource situation in the Americas or the rest of the western world today, or even in the future as "tight". Compared to our predecessors, and compared to the rest of the world we have plenty of everything we need.
Okay, maybe in the next ten years, climbing into the dually pickup to cruise 150 miles to a fishing camp will cause someone to think twice and maybe find a less energy intensive way to get a day's fishing in. Maybe we'll be using bikes and turning the thermostat up to 78 from 72. But there is no believable reason to think that we won't be able to eat or heat our homes.

I think of World War II rationing as an example. People gave up luxuries, gave up long distance trips, ate less sweets and only had a 3 or 4 gallons of bug juice a week for the car. But, even in the midst of that, life was not so rough for folks at home.
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For every 5 population growth there are 3 abortions

Unread postby Bas » Wed 22 Aug 2007, 21:33:41

making abortions by far the biggest population limiting factor already, and by choice. discuss. wikipedia/abortion]link

edit: world population grows by about 75 million a year while there are about 50 million abortions a year.
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Re: for every 5 popultn grwth there are 3 abortions, worldwi

Unread postby Laughs_Last » Wed 22 Aug 2007, 22:18:42

Bas, your 3:5 ratio is equal to 60:100. The wikipedia article you link to states that the ratio is 26:100. The growth rate of 75 million isn't the number of births, it is births minus deaths. See link
Why am I doing your reading for you? What is scary is that about 50% of embryos die naturally. That's G-Dog smiting down... 310.2 million unborn babies per year.
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Re: for every 5 popultn grwth there are 3 abortions, worldwi

Unread postby Bas » Wed 22 Aug 2007, 22:37:42

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Laughs_Last', 'B')as, your 3:5 ratio is equal to 60:100. The wikipedia article you link to states that the ratio is 26:100. The growth rate of 75 million isn't the number of births, it is births minus deaths. See link
Why am I doing your reading for you? What is scary is that about 50% of embryos die naturally. That's G-Dog smiting down... 310.2 million unborn babies per year.

yeah, I think I adjusted the title for that mistake before you posted this, and thanks for posting the wiki about population growth, I should have included it in my original post.
Last edited by Bas on Thu 23 Aug 2007, 14:04:02, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: for every 5 popultn grwth there are 3 abortions, worldwi

Unread postby Alcassin » Thu 23 Aug 2007, 05:39:56

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Laughs_Last', 'W')hat is scary is that about 50% of embryos die naturally. That's G-Dog smiting down... 310.2 million unborn babies per year.


I thank mother nature for that.

I said once in other thread - if we double abortions population growth immiedately stops. If somebody likes straight and drastic solution, here is one.

Bas I left you PM, you made mistake ;)
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