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Modified Pumped Storage Hydroelectric Plant

Discussions of conventional and alternative energy production technologies.

Modified Pumped Storage Hydroelectric Plant

Unread postby HydroDyne » Tue 07 Aug 2007, 23:29:06

I have a idea for a Modified Pumped Storage Hydroelectric Plant that does not have a devastating impact on the environment by using a small fraction of the space of a Conventional Pumped Storage Facility. Also the diversity of the plant allows it to be built in otherwise unsuitable locations for dam plants of comparable production capacity.

I have read what I can about every conceivable dam, hydro plant facility, fluid dynamics, hydrodynamic fluids, turbine theory, and anything to do with construction materials and techniques.

I've built a crude proto-type and my theory is sound and viable, but I need to find engineers, and people versed in fluid physics to assist in the building of a full scale mycrohydroelectric 1 megawatt facility, so that a complete feasibility study can be assurtained.

Long story short, where can I find such innovative people? And funding for such a study?

Thank you,
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Re: Modified Pumped Storage Hydroelectric Plant

Unread postby kmann » Wed 08 Aug 2007, 15:42:37

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('HydroDyne', 'I') have a idea for a Modified Pumped Storage Hydroelectric Plant ...

Please tell me more. It seems to me you have a physical limitation of PE = mgh (potential energy equals mass times gravity(a constant) times height. You can only increase stored energy by increasing mass - make it bigger, something you're not doing. Or you can increase h - make it taller. Not too many other options. I suppose you could make it more efficient, but that would only give incremental gains. So what's your idea?
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Re: Modified Pumped Storage Hydroelectric Plant

Unread postby Ming » Wed 08 Aug 2007, 16:47:33

I used to do some research in energy storage, and have some patents in CAES.
So, I am curious about your idea, mainly because I also don’t see a way around the problems that kmann enunciated.
(Perhaps you could use a denser fluid, instead of water, but I don’t think anything is competitive with water for large storage dams…)

Anyway, if you really have an innovative idea, you should patent it first, and try to get people to look at it only after that.
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Re: Modified Pumped Storage Hydroelectric Plant

Unread postby mos6507 » Wed 08 Aug 2007, 20:16:11

How big would it have to be for a single household to store overnight electricity? As big as a farm silo?
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Re: Modified Pumped Storage Hydroelectric Plant

Unread postby kmann » Thu 09 Aug 2007, 15:24:37

10,000 gallons at 100 feet high would store roughly 3 KW - hours of energy, if my "back of an envelope" calculations are correct. So yes, a farm silo sized unit for overnight usage is approximate.
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Re: Modified Pumped Storage Hydroelectric Plant

Unread postby Ming » Fri 10 Aug 2007, 03:56:00

Forget 100ft and farm silo sizes.
(You would have important loses in the pumping and in the electricity (re)production, too.)

With pumped water you need mountains (at least 400 to 500ft if you have HUGE reservoirs, but ideally 1000ft or more) and big open air reservoirs...
Not a solution for individuals, except if you own a big ranch in the mountains…

But overall it is a great solution for utilities to balance wind energy production.
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Re: Modified Pumped Storage Hydroelectric Plant

Unread postby kmann » Fri 10 Aug 2007, 11:57:08

Agreed. A bank of lead acid batteries is a better solution for single household use.
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Re: Modified Pumped Storage Hydroelectric Plant

Unread postby mos6507 » Sat 11 Aug 2007, 19:20:57

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kmann', 'A')greed. A bank of lead acid batteries is a better solution for single household use.


That's all well and good until collapse makes it so you can no longer just go to the store and replace your worn out batteries. There has to be low-tech energy DIY storage solutions that don't require constant replenishment.
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