[Ayoob]

I just got back from visiting heaven on Earth. Bottom line, it's absolutely beautiful. The people are educated, they have every modern convenience and art form, indoor plumbing, symphony orchestras, busses and trains, peace and tranquility in the streets.

These people have never known any kind of civil disturbance. That's why they can't imagine it. It hasn't happened to them yet.

When trouble comes, I don't think they'll recognize it as real trouble and figure somebody will bail them out. Nothing stays bad, it always gets fixed. They'll probably be sitting in their houses having tea and asking themselves why the mugging rate is so high and why the grocery store has been closed for a week. It's just crime. It's just gangs. It's just isolated cases of rape and looting. It's just isolated cases of arson, non-Terror-related. It's just random police corruption. The odd case of starvation. And home foreclosure. They fail to see the common thread.

The exercise of getting myself ready to be self-sufficient has been a real eye-opener. As much time as I spend on self-sufficiency, and as much work and money I allocate to the project, there is ALWAYS more to do. Anyone who expects the government to handle their needs is going to be way behind me in this effort.

Thus, doom.

I understand the Europeans and the Northern Democrats now. I wish you good luck.

[Narz]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ayoob', 'T')hus, doom.

[TheDude]

The Doom[sup]X[/sup] writing on here is largely irrelevant posturing/fantasizing. I'd rather read about possible constructive ways of solving our problems, not what the possible ramifications of them could be. It's just noise. I've better things to do.

This forum's still a good source of energy related news, which is mostly what I come to it for now.

[wisconsin_cur]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TheDude', 'T')he Doom[sup]X[/sup] writing on here is largely irrelevant posturing/fantasizing. I'd rather read about possible constructive ways of solving our problems, not what the possible ramifications of them could be.

[dinopello]

It's easy to slip into the verbage of "solving" or "fixing" the problem. But, anyone who talks like that and actually believes it, I think is not being realistic and it's what sways me at those times to more doomerish conclusions. There are responses to the consequences of PO that would be helpful I think, but not solutions in the sense that people are thinking when they say that.

The OP was a bit vague about where he was talking about, but I'm not seeing the correlation between a community that has cooperated on establishing art, symphony , train systems and all and one that will not respond well to problems as they arise. Communities that have these things in my experience are ones in which the people are very active and experienced in governing themselves and there is a very high rate of volunteerism and making things happen in response to challenges as they arise.

The communities where apathy reigns do not have these things as their government is allowed to proceed without any active participation or oversight from the people. These tend to be the communities where there is knee-jerk support for the lowest possible taxes (on the presumption it will be wasted or stolen - and it probably will be) and they oppose any cooperative project for the common good (like trains and adequate police and fire service).

Anyway, there wasn't enough info to go on.

[TheTurtle]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('wisconsin_cur', 'T')he fundamental difference between many posters strikes me as a difference between how I will solve this problem versus how we will solve this problem. If some of us do not believe that the problem that we have can be solved but the problem I have can than we should not be critisized too heavily for "posturing." Perhaps you see a way to fix our problem. I do not. As a result I will focus on my problem.

[Roccland]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('wisconsin_cur', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TheDude', 'T')he Doom[sup]X[/sup] writing on here is largely irrelevant posturing/fantasizing. I'd rather read about possible constructive ways of solving our problems, not what the possible ramifications of them could be.

[TheDude]

Individual action is impossible or extremely limited for many people, though. What should a person who rents an apartment and lives 2 miles from a supermarket/3 miles from work do in the face of fuel shortages? Get a job closer to work/supermarket? Plant tomatoes on the ledge - if they have one? Start buying E85? Get an EV? Get a backpack and learn how to hunt deer with a bow?

These people deserve some assistance, don't you think? The "posturing" I was criticizing is from people that seem to eternally wallow in the tragedy of it all, without suggesting any possible solutions - and loudly damning any who do, usually driving them away in the process. The only world they seem truly interested in has a domain name, peakoil.com.

[I_Like_Plants]

Look, ignore things like Peak Oil, peak population, world war III, etc that are poised to squish us like that big foot in Monty Python....

Just look at things as they are.

Almost all of us are debt slaves, wage slaves, slaves all around. Very very few of us have the guts to be backwoods hillbillies, Amish, "possum living" (look that up) type people and live off of the grid. The DEBT/WORK grid.

Thoreau noticed this in the early 1800s, same thing back then. His parable of the man who worked for a train ticket to go to the next town as opposed to just fucking walking there.

So ignore the big foot, and see that even if things as they are continue indefinately, preparing for Doom is good for you!

[Specop_007]

The nice thing about being a doomer or survivalist is that I only have to be right once to justify my stance. The optimists have to be right 100% of the time, and if they arent they may possibly die as a result of their unwillingness to plan accordingly for "bad things".

I dont like to play the odds that much, so I plan ahead accordingly.

[mmasters]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('wisconsin_cur', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TheDude', 'T')he Doom[sup]X[/sup] writing on here is largely irrelevant posturing/fantasizing. I'd rather read about possible constructive ways of solving our problems, not what the possible ramifications of them could be.

[holmes]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Drifter', 'T')he problem with selfish, individualistic societies like the US and other countries is that most people and governments in those societies won't work together to try to soften the crash. It's the other way around. A fight to maintain their current lifestyles, at any cost.

[holmes]

and another reality is this: centralized power corrupts. That government that the socialistpaths cherish is all about power. Their little worshipers they laugh at and will opress asap. its amazing the clever chimpanzees have not realized this yet. Wow are we really this advanced human created by a god? I am seeing big time chimp dna in the hairless chimpanzee.

[Twilight]

Position yourself as you see fit, and you will win or lose.

Campaign for others to position the collective to suit yourself, and you are wasting time.

Simple.

Ocean-going yacht with MREs to last years is not required. Just being ahead of the pack enough.

[seahorse2]

Yes Ayoob, now you are finally seeing that you will make it. Again, the law of averages, you don't have to be the fastest or smartest, you just have to outlast all those happy go lucky everything is okay jack asses. Just like the old joke about the bear hunters. The hungry bear comes into bear camp. One hunter starts putting on his running shoes. The other hunter says, "why are you doing that? You can't outrun the bear." The other hunter says, "I'm not going to outrun the bear. I'm going to outrun you." So, don't worry about the bear of peak oil, worry about outrunning the others around you. Remember, PO is a people problem, meaning, too many people. Just stay healthier and stay alive, and you will be okay. So, stay fit, mentally sharp, and keep working on your nursing degree which keeps you in demand anywhere in the world, and, you will be okay.

All those dependent on medicines will go first, the sick, old, then all the pets and other bs. Assuming the world doesn't nuke itself to death, most young and healthy should be able to wait this thing out. The vikings did okay, and I suspect we will too.

[Iaato]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('wisconsin_cur', 'T')he fundamental difference between many posters strikes me as a difference between how I will solve this problem versus how we will solve this problem. If some of us do not believe that the problem that we have can be solved but the problem I have can than we should not be critisized too heavily for "posturing." Perhaps you see a way to fix our problem. I do not. As a result I will focus on my problem.

We both are being "constructive" the difference is that I do not believe the team's effort will make any real difference so I am still stuck with my individual problem. Instead of joining the team on something that I believe will fail I am preparing myself for the team's ultimate failure. Those with a similar outlook can learn from one another. We are being constructive to one another.

[Pops]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TheDude', 'T')he Doom[sup]X[/sup] writing on here is largely irrelevant posturing/fantasizing.

[strider3700]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TheDude', '
')
These people deserve some assistance, don't you think?

[wisconsin_cur]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Iaato', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('wisconsin_cur', 'T')he fundamental difference between many posters strikes me as a difference between how I will solve this problem versus how we will solve this problem. If some of us do not believe that the problem that we have can be solved but the problem I have can than we should not be critisized too heavily for "posturing." Perhaps you see a way to fix our problem. I do not. As a result I will focus on my problem.

We both are being "constructive" the difference is that I do not believe the team's effort will make any real difference so I am still stuck with my individual problem. Instead of joining the team on something that I believe will fail I am preparing myself for the team's ultimate failure. Those with a similar outlook can learn from one another. We are being constructive to one another.