[clover]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('duke3522', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('clover', 'I') know... for once, Indiana might have gotten the better end of the deal here.

[rogerhb]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Dreamtwister', 'T')hat poem refers to an incident in the winter of 1282, when a particularly heavy snowfall caused 5 of the main arches of the bridge to collapse.

[gg3]

Sale of toll roads, particularly to foreign interesets: Really Really Stupid; trading in an asset with longterm value, for a short-term infusion of cash. This is so typical of the "borrow and spend" mentality that has taken over lately. Sh--!, it used to be that "conservative" meant prudent, and Republican meant prudent; but no longer. Looks like that role is now passing to libertarian Democrats.

(And as for the issue of whether government should be in the road biz: Yes in terms of ownership, a road is a public right-of-way. But the building of roads should be handled by the private sector. I'll even go so far as to say that rail rights-of-way should be owned by government, with railroad companies owning the locos and rolling stock and paying for usage on a fee basis. This will also introduce a competitive market in rail services, which should lead to improved passenger service in many areas.)

[frankthetank]

A bridge that spans the Mississippi River fell apart today and has killed at least 6 people. Looks like this stuff is already starting to fall apart. The bridge was built in 1967 for what i could find. Looks like something right out of Baghdad. Think of how many bridges across this great land (?) have bridges nearing that age. The future looks bright in all areas!

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/08/01/bridge ... pstoryview

100,000 cars go across this bridge a day...

[rdberg1957]

The bridge which spans the Mississippi near the University of Minnesota was of a unique construction design. There were no pylons in the water, all the support was at the ends of the bridge. It appears that the center of the bridge fell in to the river. There were inspections done in 2006 which raised concerns about cracks in the areas which may have been the focal points of the collapse. However, the reports by structural engineers did not convey alarm. This occurred during 6pm end of rush and many cars were on the bridge. The bridge was 40 years old and was undergoing minor repairs at the time of the collapse. At least twenty construction workers were on the bridge at the time.

[emersonbiggins]

Look for more of this in the future. It's a certainty.

[joewp]

The American Society of Civil Engineers has been talking about this problem for years. The country is falling apart, since we've decided to forgo routine maintenance on our infrastructure for other purposes.

And the scary part is, brides were rated near the highest, a C, or mediocre. Solid waste was the only area better, a C+.

[web]http://www.asce.org/reportcard/2005/page.cfm?id=103[/web]

[RainShadow]

I cross this bridge daily, as do a metric fuckton (my estimate) of others. From the sounds of it this happened on the tail end of rush hour. The bridge is.. was.. right in downtown Minneapolis.

The bridge was 40 years old. I'm no engineer, but yeah on the surface of it that says crumbling infrastructure. HOWEVER, they've been working on the bridge all summer, with lanes closed in both directions for resurfacing work and whatnot. Too early to say, but if it does turn out to be infrastructure that isn't being maintained properly people are gonna be livid. Underfunded road construction is already a touchy subject here, politically speaking.

I've just heard on the local radio (MPR) that according to a transportation report from a few years ago they didn't find structural problems with the bridge, but they did see a "troubling lack of redundancy" in the trusses that supported the bridge. So, one problem would really be all it have needed.

Gonna be a long night here. There was a work crew and at least 50 cars on that bridge.

[seldom_seen]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('emersonbiggins', 'L')ook for more of this in the future. It's a certainty.

[perdition79]

I was around for I-65 in Birmingham when it went down, back in '02. All it took was a gasoline tanker to bring it down. The loss of that road crippled traffic through the South for a couple months. Us truckers had to take the backroads through Alabama, adding a couple hours to every run in the region. Luckily, parts of the South aren't densely populated.

Every time one of these sections of interstate collapse, keep in mind that these are roads that are being maintained. Wait until road construction stops altogether due to increased asphalt costs, public service job cuts, and a depression. Roads will fall apart all over, further crippling our economy. Most people don't think twice about our interstate highways, but without them, transportation becomes very costly. Taking side roads can double the amount of time delivering a load, especially in the Northeast. Rolling through town gets tedious, stoplight to stoplight in rush hour burns out clutches, wastes fuel, and upsets truckers. A future without interstates will be expensive.

[emersonbiggins]

This thread will cover events of catastrophic infrastructure failure, a reality destined to become commonplace in an era of declining energy supplies. These events include, but are not limited to road, bridge & dam failures, energy/water production & delivery system failures, as well as telecommunications infrastructure failures.

This report from the American Society of Civil Engineers demonstrates the criticality of the situation (thanks to JoeWP for the link):

[web]http://www.asce.org/reportcard/2005/page.cfm?id=103[/web]

[128shot]

{thread merged by emersonbiggins}

MINNEAPOLIS - The entire span of an interstate bridge suddenly broke into huge sections and collapsed into the Mississippi River during evening bumper-to-bumper traffic Wednesday, sending vehicles, tons of concrete and twisted metal crashing into the water.

Kristi Rollwagen, the deputy director of emergency preparedness for the city, said seven people had died in the incident.

Fire Chief Jim Clack confirmed the death toll. Asked about the possibility of finding more survivors, Clack said, “The likelihood is fairly slim.”

Police Chief Tim Dolan said all survivors who were on the bridge are now off. "We've accounted for all the construction workers except for one," he said.

Officials said at about 10:25 p.m. CT that recovery personnel had moved from rescuing individuals to recovering bodies.

Hours after the collapse, Mayor R.T. Rybak said rescue workers had searched around 50 cars.

“We have a feeling that there are more vehicles under the water,” Clack said.

"Obviously this is a catastrophe of historic proportions," said Minnesota Gov. Tim Pawlenty.

The Interstate 35W bridge, a major Minneapolis artery, was in the midst of being repaired when it collapsed at 6:05 p.m. CT. Repairs, which closed at least two of the eight lanes, involved guardrail replacement on the joints and concrete work, Pawlenty said.

"There were two lanes of traffic, bumper to bumper, at the point of the collapse. Those cars did go into the river," said Minneapolis Police Lt. Amelia Huffman. "At this point there is nothing to suggest that this was anything other than a structural collapse."

At least 58 individuals — at least 10 of them children — were injured, said medical officials. Six individuals being treated at Hennepin County Medical Center were in critical condition, Dr. Joseph Clinton said.

Clinton said the injuries were blunt force trauma to the abdomen, head, trunk and extremities.

NBC News reported that every Minneapolis ambulance had been requested to the scene.

A freight train was passing under the bridge when it collapsed and was cut in two, reported witnesses on the scene to MSNBC.

Police set up floodlights so rescue officials can work throughout the night.

The Minnesota Department of Transportation told local media that 200,000 cars a day use the bridge.

The bridge, built in 1967, was last inspected in 2006 and had no major structural defects or deficits, Pawlenty said. "We were told the deck would have to be replaced in 2020."

‘It shook the ground’
A burning truck and a school bus clung to one slanted slab after the collapse.

The school bus carrying 60 children reportedly had just crossed the bridge before the structure crumpled into pieces. The children, who have since been united with their families, exited out the back door of the bus. A Red Cross official said 10 were transported to a hospital.

Click for related content
FirstPerson: Readers' images | Share yours
North Calif. highway bridge collapses; 2 injured
Aging N.Y. pipes raise concerns of more blasts

Ritha Boyle, 22, who said she lives about 200 yards from the bridge, witnessed the collapse.

"At first I just heard a big bang and I thought it was thunderstorms," Boyle told MSNBC.com. "Then I looked outside I noticed there was dust coming up from the bridge, and then I saw it go down and hit a train. I saw some cars trying to hit their brakes and stuff like that, and a whole bunch of cars went down."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20079534/?GT1=10252

[OilIsMastery]

The wrath of God. God is punishing Minneapolis for appointing transgendered clergy.

http://www.mnspeak.com/mnspeak/archive/post-315.cfm

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'H')imschoot made news when he became America's first openly transgendered clergy at Plymouth Congregational Church in Minneapolis

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('seldom_seen', 'I') think we need a thread devoted to infrastructure failure. It's getting hard to keep track of.

[seldom_seen]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('seldom_seen', 'I') think we need a thread devoted to infrastructure failure. It's getting hard to keep track of.

[azreal60]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he wrath of God. God is punishing Minneapolis for appointing transgendered clergy.

[IanC]

So, what will it be: spend money to maintain largely automobile-based infrastructure (roads, bridges, viaducts, etc) or reallocate that money to more appropriate technology for a Post Peak future?

I hear (figuratively) a lot of posters on this site bemoaning the fact that we are not preparing for the future by retrofiting our car-based infrastructure ie. not building better infrastructure for bikes, trains, walkable communities. I'm one of those posters. However, we clearly have a choice to make regarding the vast amount of dollars it will take to maintain our current infrastructure. Should we maintain or highways or not? What makes sense for the future?

Be careful how you answer as both paths are frought with challenges!

-Ian

[frankthetank]

Anyone know how long something like this will take to get replaced??? Not that i use it, but it does look like a lot of others do. Does the state/city/county have to pick up the cost of all the damaged people/cars/trains/etc?

[canis_lupus]

Frank -

When the big floods happened in 1993, some of the rail bridges were replaced in two weeks. The rail crews worked around the clock driving pilings, fabricating steel, etc.

I think if the city wants it bad enough, they can rebuild it in a couple of months. I think just clearing the debris is going to cause a shortage of welders in the area.

I wonder if they can route traffic on the bridge next to the one that collapsed...any way you look at it, traffic is going to be a mess.

I don't know how old you are (I'm 38) but I remember how much of a clusterf$#k it was when the crack developed in the bridge from Prairie du Chien, WI to Macgregor, IA. I believe it was closed for mostly a year. I know the Army Corps of Engineers had a lot to do with getting it fixed.

I also wonder if there is FEMA money involved.
...and if the workers caused the failure or if the train passing under it derailed and hit something hard enough to knock it down.