[steam_cannon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('katkinkate', 'B')ut here in Australia, I don't think the people will get as dangerous as you Americans are. We are more easy-going and it takes a lot to get us riled up to rioting level anger.

[lady-t]

cool pics rocc, i'm jealous.

[kevincarter]

Nice, but having so many guns I'm surprised you don't have anyway to shoot from the inside out. Have you thought about making the top of it more foxhole / warbunker like? So that two or three people can stay in there and defend that position while having most of their body underground?

[wisconsin_cur]

Looks like a great idea and congrats on the gumption to actually follow through and making the thing... there sometimes be more talk than action on the issue of prepardness.

Regarding all of the critiques it seems to me that hope for the best is often the enemy of doing something productive. Is "the tube" fool proof or perfect? Probably not but it is something.

[kevincarter]

By the way, I've heard some guys made a bunker burying an old school bus, you can get one for less than 2.000 $ and its quite strong.

[Roccland]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kevincarter', 'N')ice, but having so many guns I'm surprised you don't have anyway to shoot from the inside out. Have you thought about making the top of it more foxhole / warbunker like? So that two or three people can stay in there and defend that position while having most of their body underground?

[gg3]

Nice job. Any ideas about recon while inside? Also communications. Also sanitation: sewage and garbage, and washing your body and clothes. Water supply?

The thing that will give away any underground hidey-hole is the thermal signature of warm air being exhausted from a vent somewhere, visible with the right types of infrared imaging systems. IMHO a tight neighborhood minimizes the chance of having to fight outsiders on home turf; they have to get into the neighborhood first; the perimeter of the entire neighborhood (or hopefully, region) becomes the point of contact with routine hostiles.

Someone in our group mentioned burying corrugated steel culverts as expedient fallout shelters. Interesting to see it done. I was thinking of large diameter concrete sewer pipe rather than steel culvert. This could be backed up with additional concrete poured in place atop it, before backfilling with earth.

Northern CA is not on any of the nuclear target maps, but just the same, I get a certain uneasy feeling about the risk of nuclear war, given the resource competition expected in this century.

[seahorse2]

This guy buries old school buses for fallout shelters. Check it out.

School Bus Fallout shelter

[steam_cannon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kevincarter', 'B')y the way, I've heard some guys made a bunker burying an old school bus, you can get one for less than 2.000 $ and its quite strong.

[steam_cannon]

Storm shelters and root cellar round up

==================================

Classic


Concrete block or poured. Building to code probably requires inspection in most areas.

Alternative materials like sandbags or timber might be used, but may not pass more modern building codes if that applies to your area.
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Hillbilly


The "OMG you built that yourself, are you sure that's legal?" root cellar. It works if there are no building codes and no neighbors... Also a great way to make bases for paintball!

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Steel


Medium cost and structurally sound. Also since many designs use materials that the city uses and require installation by a contractor, they are less likely to conflict with building codes (depends on area).

Roccland used the large can design. And with the locking manhole cover on top, it is large yet subtle in appearances.

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Fiberglass


Good for wet areas. Expensive as a boat, but good quality and likely to be within building codes.

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Plastic (one piece)


Good for wet areas. Also expensive, good quality and likely to be within building codes.

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Miniature root cellars


Barrel root cellars are a classic and subtle way to store apples and root crops without building a more extensive structure. They can be easily added to most gardens and are unlikely to conflict with building codes. Though they do not provide human shelter, they can be made using many different materials and can be an excellent asset to any remote garden.

[steam_cannon]

Looking down the manhole into Rocclands "root cellar"...

[Roccland]

6 too many Mike

[steam_cannon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Roccland', '6') too many Mike

[oiless]

I'm sorry, but I really don't get the point.
A root cellar should have a level entrance for easy access carrying supplies in and out, (built into a hill is good) and an airlock door system.
This looks like a bomb shelter, but it's a death trap. I wouldn't want to retreat into that from any threat.
I hope that you have access to the top of it severely restricted, because if I was a marauder, and not the peaceable soul that I am, my move would be to park a car over the manhole, run a hose from the exhaust to your vent, and move off a short distance, perhaps have a beer while I wait for my new supplies to become officially mine.

[steam_cannon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('oiless', 'I')'m sorry, but I really don't get the point.
A root cellar should have a level entrance for easy access carrying supplies in and out...

[Roccland]

Excellent Mike - thanks for the air support...I would have answered nearly exactly the way you did.

I am dealing with AP on 911.

I really should drop out of that thread, but now that most all my preps are done...I can play a little.

BTW it has taken me well over 4 months to load that cellar...one box at a time up 12 feet and down 12 feet...it would be extremely difficult to unload.

I make another trip tomorrow - Mountain House food and more ammo.

[oiless]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Roccland', '
')
BTW it has taken me well over 4 months to load that cellar...one box at a time up 12 feet and down 12 feet...it would be extremely difficult to unload.

[Roccland]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '"')BTW, if you want to booby trap a root cellar, which should be airtight by design, place something like a kerosene lamp in it. It will burn until it runs out of oxygen, meanwhile filling the air with carbon monoxide. The air will remain lethal for quite some time. You can come home and drag (hoist in your case ) the dead maurauders out at your leisure. You can also produce lamp black this way."

[oiless]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Roccland', '
')
I LOVE THIS SITE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[gg3]

Hmm, so far no one else seems to have answers for water and sanitation.

First of all, if the issue is a tornado, you're only down there for a few hours at most. Unless it's terribly bad outside, you can go out to relieve yourself in a handy bucket. It's still a good idea to store water in the event a storm takes down the local water supply.

If the issue is nuclear weapons fallout, you're going to be down there for three weeks to a month. In that case you need sufficient water for washing, and a change of clothes (at least underwear) about every three days, and you need to wash.

Water can be stored in metal or preferably food-grade plastic drums with tight lids, filled before you go down there and dosed with bleach as appropriate.

Plastic containers lined with plastic bags can be used as expedient toilets, plus or minus the ferocious stench. Some kind of privacy screen helps considerably. Best place for the crapper is next to the exhaust air outlet so the stench goes up the stack. However, smart hostiles will know to follow their noses back to you and your supplies.

Re. someone parking a car and running a hose from the exhaust: the right ammo through the right place in the car will deal with that, or have your air supply reversible so you can suck fresh air in at the other end and blow the exhaust out. Then when Mr. Badguy comes down looking for you, *bang!*

This also demonstrates the value of good recon & surveillance. Tiny video cameras can be concealed at a distance, connected via buried wiring, and operated on minimal power derived from a pedal-powered generator inside the shelter. Panasonic makes a nice home entry system with a small color flat-screen display, that presumably uses minimal power. Don't forget the audio, it might net you some conversations about the intentions of whoever's up there. You don't want wireless because it depends on batteries, and it emits RF that people such as yours truly will be intercepting and RDFing.

You probably want a hardwired landline telephone down there. You would be surprised, the telephones may very well work when everything else is down. Use a 2500 set or equivalent (GPO 746, NTT 600, etc. and their DTMF variants) so it's not susceptible to EMP.

You probably also want broadband radio receivers, with their antennae concealed one way or another aboveground. If the area is clear of hostiles with RDF capability, some kind of 2-way radio is also useful for contacting others who may be similarly hiding in their holes. Put the antennae for the 2-way radios in different locations from those for the broadband receivers, so the former don't saturate the latter.

---

Re. building codes: Seems to me the 2nd Amendment trumps the building code. A fallout shelter arguably falls under the header of arms you have a right to keep and bear.

Aside from which, if you go through the permit process, your plans will become public in all detail, and you may as well paint a great big target on the ground above your hidey-hole.

Do it on the sly.

Dig it out with picks and shovels. Use concrete-filled cinderblock masonry walls, or poured concrete. Few things are quite as conspicuous as a cement truck sitting in front of your house, so mix the stuff on site (second-hand electric mixers can be gotten on the cheap, presumably via Craig's List or local classifieds). Use as little water in the concrete as possible: a stiff mix is a strong mix. Moist-cure it for at least a week after pouring.

Take the excavated earth and spread it around the property for decorative landscaping. Do this as you go, so there aren't any telltell large piles left sitting around looking like mounds of elephant poop ("but we just had a Republican fundraiser at the house..!"). Put someone in charge of planting expedient flowers and suchlike atop the spread-out earth to make it look as if it's been there a while. Depending on your soil you may want to mix in some peat moss or chicken fertilizer or whatever to make stuff take root and grow faster.

Use camo netting to disguise the construction site from the aerial snoops that operate on behalf of city permit offices. The netting can be laid on the ground where it will look more or less like a mangey lawn. When you're done and you're in the process of backfilling the whole thing, put a brick-on-sand patio atop it or some other harmless bit of backyard landscaping stuff, or better yet a food crop garden, to show the building inspector if s/he happens to mosey around.

Cheerful future we're facing, isn't it?