[BigTex]

I was watching a movie and during a diatribe against the world today the character mentioned a "preoccupation with abstraction" as one of the principal problems (two points to anyone who can name the film).

I think it's true that many of us have come to live almost exclusively in our "head space." We deal only in ideas, moving paper from desk to desk, working with computer screen shots, all of which are many steps removed from the actual production of products and services, and sometimes the product or service being produced is still many steps removed from a product or service that actually does anything useful.

What stops this drift toward more and more abstraction in the way we think and the mental space we occupy is when some part of the infrastructure supporting the abstract existence breaks down. Thus, when the electricity goes off or the network goes down we feel adrift, disconnected; it's a strange feeling.

PO will represent such a breakdown in the infrastructure supporting this ethereal kind of existence. It will be profoundly unsettling when people realize that in this case it's not that we don't know how to repair the machine, but rather that the machine has run out of gas and we can't afford to buy any more to refill it.

I read a science fiction story called "The Machine Stops" where an entire world was populated by people whose existence was almost entirely abstract. They essentially sat in their rooms and had a monitor in front of them where they worked, played, loved, lost...basically had the entire human experience abstractly. Then one day the supposedly perpetual motion machine that supported this world broke. No one knew how to fix it. Many went insane. The rest tried to respond, but realized they had no skills of any kind to either repair the machine or even feed themselves. In one sense they were brilliant, but only in terms of working with ideas; they had no skills for working with realities like raising food, building shelters, and creating tools.

Many people don't realize the degree to which they live in a world preoccupied with abstraction. For anyone who lives in such a world, an experience like camping can be profound because it just seems so "real" compared to the world they are used to.

The trip from the real to the abstract can be kind of fun. A person thinks to himself "my dad was a farmer and I am a banker; I'm better off than him." On the other hand, moving from a workd of abstraction to a world of reality is often considered a big step down: "I went from practicing law to working on a farm; I'm worse off."

It will be interesting to see how the dwellers in abstract worlds will fare as the infrastructure that supports the abstract world begins to come apart.

The welders, plumbers and carpenters will do fine, I think. The financial analysts, securities lawyers, image consultants and gossip columnists may have it a little rougher.

[wisconsin_cur]

preach it brother

It really must be the end of the world if I am agreeing with and calling someone with the handle "BigTex" brother.

"Texas: Its like a whole other country"

[BigTex]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('wisconsin_cur', 'p')reach it brother

It really must be the end of the world if I am agreeing with and calling someone with the handle "BigTex" brother.

"Texas: Its like a whole other country"

[TommyJefferson]

You might enjoy this article. I did.

http://www.thenewatlantis.com/archive/13/crawford.htm

PDF version: http://www.thenewatlantis.com/archive/1 ... awford.pdf

I earn my coin manipulating abstractions. I obtain my measured doses of the real world by stealth motorcycle camping in cemetaries and behind churches on the road. From that I get: Rain. Sunburn. Bugs in my soup. Waking up with racoons staring in my face. The possibility of being stranded if I can't fix my machine when it breaks. Solitude.

If not for that occasional reality refreshment, I would be a severe drug addict and probably suicidal.

[Pops]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BigTex', 'I') wear a cowboy hat, you wear a block of cheese. Maybe we were separated at birth.

[BigTex]

Lest anyone think I was knocking abstraction, I make my money there too. It's just kind of a bummer when I do real work like mow my yard, work on my car or paint my house, I get this feeling that I am doing something far more useful (i.e. real) than what I do for money, and yet what I do for money pays me way more than what the lawn mowers, mechanics and house painters make.

It's weird. Supply and demand, I suppose.

This is one more reason that it is hard to get "back to the land". The land doesn't pay as well as the office, not in money anyway.

[wisconsin_cur]

I think you set the problem out well in the OP. Abstratction is great as a tool. A chicken coop that is square is easier to build and lasts longer than one that is not. Geometry, an abstraction, is a great tool toward that end.

Ideals are great as we begin to learn how to live with one another. Human life has worth (an abstraction) can guide good behavior. But, like geometry, it needs to be applied in the real world. We should not let our ideal re:human life blind us to the fact that not every one shares that value or grants it as much value as we might. If we are honest me will realize that it is not an absolute ideal even in our own actions.

If we only live in our "head space" we can confuse tools and ends. If pencil and paper are the only tools we use we may think every problem has a pen and paper solution. Sometimes you have to get out in the dirt and use your abstract tools to work on the real world. Other wise the real world will come and eat you and will spit your pencil out onto the ground.

[Concerned]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BigTex', 'L')est anyone think I was knocking abstraction, I make my money there too. It's just kind of a bummer when I do real work like mow my yard, work on my car or paint my house, I get this feeling that I am doing something far more useful (i.e. real) than what I do for money, and yet what I do for money pays me way more than what the lawn mowers, mechanics and house painters make.

It's weird. Supply and demand, I suppose.

This is one more reason that it is hard to get "back to the land". The land doesn't pay as well as the office, not in money anyway.

[Pops]

At one time I did Tenant Improvements for a jewelry store chain - basically planning and contracting the finishing and furnishing of one of those boxes under the mall roof.

I could spend a half-million bucks easy - and that was in the '80s.

When the lease was up in 6 or 8 years, the thing contractually had to be substantially redone to look "fresh".

Airball…

[Pops]

At one time I did Tenant Improvements for a jewelry store chain - basically planning and contracting the finishing and furnishing of one of those boxes under the mall roof.

I could spend a half-million bucks easy - and that was in the '80s.

When the lease was up in 6 or 8 years, the thing contractually had to be substantially redone to look "fresh".

Airball…

[BigTex]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('wisconsin_cur', 'I') think you set the problem out well in the OP. Abstratction is great as a tool. A chicken coop that is square is easier to build and lasts longer than one that is not. Geometry, an abstraction, is a great tool toward that end.

Ideals are great as we begin to learn how to live with one another. Human life has worth (an abstraction) can guide good behavior. But, like geometry, it needs to be applied in the real world. We should not let our ideal re:human life blind us to the fact that not every one shares that value or grants it as much value as we might. If we are honest me will realize that it is not an absolute ideal even in our own actions.

If we only live in our "head space" we can confuse tools and ends. If pencil and paper are the only tools we use we may think every problem has a pen and paper solution. Sometimes you have to get out in the dirt and use your abstract tools to work on the real world. Other wise the real world will come and eat you and will spit your pencil out onto the ground.

[Pops]

Actually an Airball with a wet signature from a structural engineer and the red steel to match.

[mainframe]

wow, this is a really good discussion. I have had similar thoughts before, but Tex's and others comments made me think about how much of my life is real and how much is abstract thinking, and what the psychological effects of that may be.

I swear, I used to live in Austin and it is rare to find a Texas person who is so insightful. There are some, but a lot of intellectual types and free thinkers are likely to find the predominating culture around there somewhat repressive. I remember one time I was sitting outside of a coffee shop and some kids threw like a Wendy's drink at us from a car because this was the kind of coffee shop where they would have poetry readings and whatnot. And we had ladies with us too, who were dressed up. So that's the kind of intolerance you have to put up with sometimes in Texas.

Anyways, thanks for the provocative discussion. I think I'm going to do some real work now, in the kitchen, lest I get too caught up in the abstract computer land.

[Ludi]

Gossip columnists will have no problem adapting - gossip is a perennial human endeavor! They just might not be able to make a living at it beyond free meals.



"If you don't have anything nice to say, sit next to me."


- attributed to Dorothy Parker

[TonyPrep]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BigTex', 'T')he welders, plumbers and carpenters will do fine, I think.

[Pops]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TonyPrep', 'I') don't see why.

[Narz]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TommyJefferson', 'Y')ou might enjoy this article. I did.

http://www.thenewatlantis.com/archive/13/crawford.htm

PDF version: http://www.thenewatlantis.com/archive/1 ... awford.pdf

I earn my coin manipulating abstractions. I obtain my measured doses of the real world by stealth motorcycle camping in cemetaries and behind churches on the road. From that I get: Rain. Sunburn. Bugs in my soup. Waking up with racoons staring in my face. The possibility of being stranded if I can't fix my machine when it breaks. Solitude.

If not for that occasional reality refreshment, I would be a severe drug addict and probably suicidal.

[TonyPrep]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TonyPrep', 'I') don't see why.

[BigTex]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TonyPrep', 'I') don't see why.

[I_Like_Plants]

TommyJefferson that Atlantic article is genius, and your way of coping with abstractions is too!

I urge all readers here to read the article!