[PrairieMule]

I'm thinking of taking up a new martial art and would like to solicit the opinions from the of our highly diverse PO members..

Currently I am shopping dojos and the here is the breakdown of a Taekwando studio just down the street.

Here is the breakdown: $50 app fee, $95 a month (month to month-no contract), have to but their gi with their school logo on it $60, belt tests are $60-70 each(includes video of test).

On the flip side they have classes twice a day for beginners 6 days a week (Mon-Sat)and it's a mile away from where I live. Sparring is open to all belts Fri and Sat.

[azreal60]

The prices are a little steep, but keep in mind, every dojo in every area is different. I'd say in my area it's about half that, but we are a college town with at least 100 different dojo's in many different arts, so they have to be cheap to compete.

I'd say the real killer there is, it's a mile from your house. Walking distance to a dojo? I'd LOVE to be able to say that. All mine are at least 5 miles away.

The real questions you need to answer are, is the instruction quality and can I afford it? If the answer to both is yes, and there isn't someone offering the same for cheaper, I'd say that's your answer.

[lys3rg0]

Well, i guess it depends on what you want form this "new" martial art... Do you have an old one also?

Anyway, if you just want to go to a McDojo for a little physical activity, not the art itself, any dojo will be fine... but i don't see the point of paying when you can do some sports on your own. Climbing (bouldering / artificial wall) for the upper body and mountain biking for the lower body should be a lot better than sparring 4 hours a week with people that never threw a punch in their lives.

If you want martial arts training for the art itself (you want to learn an effective fight system), the key is crosstraining: combine a good striking art and a good grappling art.

Since becoming an olympic sport TKD lost all of my trust. I see them as balet dancers in white robes I never had the flexibility for spinning roundhouse kicks, so it always looked a little bit dodgy to me, but the purpose of their training really doesn't motivate me to try and understand their system. I always liked the systems that prepare you for everything, not just for competitions.

In my view, the best grappling art is ju jitsu (either brasilian or otherwise). As for a good striking art, the discussion is very long and boring. Japanese systems are average, some are above average, i see kyokushin as acceptable. Many chinese systems are too traditionalistic and oriented towards internal energy applications (taijiquan, hsing'i, ba gua). They are very hard to master, you become good after many years of practice. So i like southern external styles, easy to transform into military applications, like hung gar, wing chun or tiger claw. Stay away from very exotic animal forms
There's also qwan qi do (from vietnam via france) or krav maga (invented by the israelis) that i would consider worthy of my time.
As for south-east asia, muay thai is very good but you probably should go to thailand to learn it properly

Hope this helps...

edit: forgot to mention that choosing a dojo is not just choosing a martial art, there are many other factors. Go sit in on one of their classes and see what happens. If they don't allow that, fuck'em. If you don;t like what you see, go somewhere else. I don't like a dojo where 50 people line up in rows and do the same dumb move over and over again. Mostly i think effective teaching should be done with small classes and a lot of 2-people applications. Also, the dojo shouldn't use up too much time of a class with pushups ot other stuff, 5 minutes of warming is enough. You can go to the gym on your own to stay in shape. A martial arts master shoudn't see himself as your personal trainer.

[azreal60]

TKD is more effective if you have really long legs. If your going to be doing it for the art as in developing a fighting system, I do agree that having more than one art is very key. I know very little compared to most people involved in the arts, but I'm better trained than 90 percent of humanity out there, and I'm in shape. I'm going to probably start taking krav maga relatively soon, but I'd say Aikido and a striking art are pretty good basics as well.

Alot of this depends on your height, weight, reach, and inclination. By inclination, I mean how you think and react in a fight. Are you the kinda person who wants to get in close, or are you trying to keep your distance? Most important, is it something you'll stick with? An art can be the best in the world, but if you don't stick with the training, white belt level ain't going to help you a whole bunch.

[PrairieMule]

I took a year of Ueshiba Aikido in college so I can take a fall and still remember a few throws. Like most other suburban white boys, I took Karate at the YMCA in jr high. My primary aim is to at least get back to a green belt level of fighting and loose a few pounds. They do teach some gracie ju-jitsu.

[lys3rg0]

coming from a chinese arts background, i find the whole belt system very funny and pointless. it's just another chance to milk the students of some money. if you need to think about the new shiny belt to motivate you to practice, something tells me you're in it for the wrong reasons and with a flawed mentality

[azreal60]

While your post is in content correct, you have to realize what people in the US have to deal with. There aren't a huge number of dojo's in the US that don't use a belt system. Keep in mind the mentality of most of the US. We like achieving things, and having symbols of that achievment. Your not going to see as many Masters teaching in the parks on an individual basis as you would elsewhere. Although there are exceptions.

All in all, it depends what his other options are. If they are many and varied, then he would definately benifit from looking around. Alot of the time though, what you get is what you get. Not like he's going to drive 30 miles to get to another studio.

[perdition79]

I used to enjoy Shotokan when I lived in New York. Good, stern sensei, excellent instruction, and just a $70 a month fee with no extra cash for your next belt. Martial Arts are the best exercise going, mainly because of the excitement and group interaction. You get to know all your classmates, and help each other. Really communal experience.

[Tricks]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('lys3rg0', '
')In my view, the best grappling art is ju jitsu (either brasilian or otherwise). As for a good striking art, the discussion is very long and boring. Japanese systems are average, some are above average, i see kyokushin as acceptable. Many chinese systems are too traditionalistic and oriented towards internal energy applications (taijiquan, hsing'i, ba gua). They are very hard to master, you become good after many years of practice. So i like southern external styles, easy to transform into military applications, like hung gar, wing chun or tiger claw. Stay away from very exotic animal forms
There's also qwan qi do (from vietnam via france) or krav maga (invented by the israelis) that i would consider worthy of my time.
As for south-east asia, muay thai is very good but you probably should go to thailand to learn it properly

Hope this helps...

[TommyJefferson]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PrairieMule', 'I')'m thinking of taking up a new martial art and would like to solicit the opinions

[PrairieMule]

Wow TJ-

Those questions cut right to the chase require a second trip. I just reciently moved from The Colony to Grapevine last week and Alpha road is a little far away. There are 3 dojo's within a 3 mile radius of our new townhouse.

BTW- on a personal note I have now been liberated from being 3 years into a 30 year mortgage/prison term. At 37 I have absolutely zero debt. Feels good to be a leaner more agile mule. My commute is only 12 miles round trip instead of 45 a day in heavy Dallas/Plano traffic.

[Chesire]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tricks', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('lys3rg0', '
')In my view, the best grappling art is ju jitsu (either brasilian or otherwise). As for a good striking art, the discussion is very long and boring. Japanese systems are average, some are above average, i see kyokushin as acceptable. Many chinese systems are too traditionalistic and oriented towards internal energy applications (taijiquan, hsing'i, ba gua). They are very hard to master, you become good after many years of practice. So i like southern external styles, easy to transform into military applications, like hung gar, wing chun or tiger claw. Stay away from very exotic animal forms
There's also qwan qi do (from vietnam via france) or krav maga (invented by the israelis) that i would consider worthy of my time.
As for south-east asia, muay thai is very good but you probably should go to thailand to learn it properly

Hope this helps...

[TommyJefferson]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PrairieMule', 'I') just reciently moved from The Colony to Grapevine

[eastbay]

PrairieMule,

Taekwondo can be a little rough on someone over 40 or so. As you've probably figured out already, it consists of some rather complex high kicking moves that can be hard on older hips and hamstrings. I was expanding my MA knowledge two years ago with some TKD and at (then) age 51 it was hamstring injuries one after another. I would always warm-up properly then dutifully practice and perform 6' jump kicks, axe kicks, front kicks, round-house kicks, etc... one after another, day after day, for several months then suddenly, *whammo*. I'd then be limping for 10 days or so.

You might give some consideration to a somewhat less leggy and acrobatic form of martial art such as one of the various kung fo forms, or maybe a very much less acrobatic kicking art such as judo or jujitsu.

Actually, I'm thinking maybe tae chi may be more my speed these days... heh.

Oh yeah, the prices are rather steep where you're considering. My family is now involved with a Hawaiian version of kung fo called kajukenbo. It may work for you too. Six belts from white to black.

[TheTurtle]

As you know, Mr. Mule, I am heavily invested in aikido and a couple of internal Chinese arts. So you might assume I would suggest that avenue.

But what I always tell people who ask the question you have asked is that you just can't go wrong with a good boxing club and a good judo club.

Both sports are full contact, so you get lots of practice being physical with others (and getting pounded on in return ). Most places have at least one of each, so it should be easy to find clubs where you can learn and work out. Most importantly, taken together, they pretty much make a complete art (yes, there is no kicking, but I'm of the opinion that anyone who throws a kick against a well trained individual is going to meet the pavement face first, so why bother? - YMMV).

Boxing and judo ... you just can't go wrong. Good workouts, good self defense skills; what more could one ask for?

[TommyJefferson]

For the benefit of anyone who may be reading, I have to recommend against TheTurtle's recommendation of boxing.

Boxing is a brutal, vicious sport that no one should practice.

When I practiced boxing I noticed that every night after boxing practice I would develop a mild, nagging headache that lasted until about noon the next day. This prompted me to research the matter.

Basically it's like this: Even the *small* amount of brain jostling you experience during boxing practice damages your brain. Dramatic, concussive knock-outs are not needed. The brain rattling from being repeatedly hit in the head, even with thick practice gloves, ruptures microscopic blood vessels in the brain.

Tissue that does not receive blood flow dies from lack of oxygen. Dead brain tissue does not grow back.

Most importantly, this damage is cumulative! It's like when a person's teeth rot. It never gets better, it only gets worse. Unlike rotted teeth, there is no way to repair brain damage. It's forever.

[TommyJefferson]

Issue #2.

IN A REAL STREET FIGHT YOU SHOULD *NEVER* HIT YOUR OPPONENT IN THE HEAD WITH YOUR FISTS!

Here's why:

1. Your knuckles will get cut on the person's teeth, sunglasses, zippers, whatever. If you split the person's lip, smash their nose, or break their orbital socket they will bleed.

Repeatedly forcing the blood of strangers into open cuts on your hands is a good way to contract HIV, hepatitis, and a host of other nasty diseases.

2. Hitting a person's hard head with your delicate hands will break your hands. Most people don't know this, but boxing gloves are for protecting the punchers hands, not the other person's head.

This has happened to me on two occasions. The pain is sudden, intense, and debilitating. Your hand becomes instantly useless. Very luckily for me, the first time this happened I knocked the guy out and the fight was over. The second time I disoriented the guy enough to break free and run away.

Don't listen to the bullshyte fat chop-sockey Grand Masters tell you about "hardening" your hands or "using correct technique". It's a lie, most often the result of ignorance rather than willful deception.

Your hands (and feet) are delicate instruments. They make very poor clubs.

Go research video of the mixed martial arts competitions back before state gaming commissions began requiring gloves. Note how frequently the competitors broke their hands.

If you break your hand when there is no referee to stop the fight or towel to be thrown in, you're screwed.

If you must pummel, learn how to do so with your elbows, knees, and shins. Learn how to only hit softer targets like the ribs and gut.

[TheTurtle]

well, I certainly don't advocate brain damage. I only boxed a bit in high school and I was always careful to guard my head; I only recall taking one shot to the head, but lots of gut shots.

I wasn't thinking so much of competitive boxing, but rather just friendly sparring with head gear and such. If, as you suggest, serious damage results from any amount of boxing, then I would agree that boxing might not be a wise decision.

OK, Mule, get back to aikido then. Bad knees are better than permanent brain damage. Heck, you might not even get bad knees. I can still sit seiza, no problem.

Just saw Tommy's next post and I agree that elbows and knees are the unarmed bludgeoning weapon of choice. I saw boxers in Thailand who could break things with their shins, but mine seem rather sensitive.

[eastbay]

... but I'm of the opinion that anyone who throws a kick against a well trained individual is going to meet the pavement face first, so why bother?

Turtle,

I never did formal boxing, but I do know I've broken small bones in my hands at least three times from using them as 'clubs'.

Respectrully, I must add that legs are far, far more efficient, powerful, and effective in combat. I agree that feet used against a 'well trained individual' may result in a silver medal, but the primary reason for MA is self-defense against scumbags, who are rarely 'well trained'. Oh, of course there are some who are, but mostly they're not.

[TheTurtle]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('eastbay', ' ')I must add that legs are far, far more efficient, powerful, and effective in combat. I agree that feet used against a 'well trained individual' may result in a silver medal, but the primary reason for MA is self-defense against scumbags, who are rarely 'well trained'. Oh, of course there are some who are, but mostly they're not.