[bshirt]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', 'I') think smokers should be banned from employment too.

[americandream]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Fishman', 'C')lassic liberal unintended consequences:
Cops are racist pigs, consequence, no cops or cops unwilling to act due to litigation, crime rampant.
Victim mentality, I'm not responsible for my actions, why does the world then collapse around me?
Corporations are evil, oh wait, what do I do without them? Where are the Ben and Jerry's in Detroit?
Sue everything in sight, call racist all the time, why do they not want to do business with me anymore?

[Zardoz]

Right. Drug tests are silly. Why should any employer anywhere have any qualms at all about having heroin, crystal meth, or rock cocaine addicts as employees?
Criminal background checks are absurd, as well. If I was trying to keep a business afloat, I wouldn't bat an eye at hiring armed robbers, burglars, con men, drug dealers, or murderers. Nobody's perfect, right? Who am I to judge the suitablity of a potential employee just because he beat somebody to death years ago?

We shouldn't put up with any kind of screening at all, should we? We should just accept what a potential employee says about themself, or writes on an application, and let it go at that, right?
Jesus...

[vision-master]

People are PAID to do a job. What's all this other B.S. about someones personal life.
Faggot's need not apply!
And another thing, no b***h is gonna be my boss either!
Real men don't work under no woman, especialy those p***s-envy types.
I'll spit my chew anywhere I like!

[americandream]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Zardoz', 'R')ight. Drug tests are silly. Why should any employer anywhere have any qualms at all about having heroin, crystal meth, or rock cocaine addicts as employees?
Criminal background checks are absurd, as well. If I was trying to keep a business afloat, I wouldn't bat an eye at hiring armed robbers, burglars, con men, drug dealers, or murderers. Nobody's perfect, right? Who am I to judge the suitablity of a potential employee just because he beat somebody to death years ago?
We shouldn't put up with any kind of screening at all, should we? We should just accept what a potential employee says about themself, or writes on an application, and let it go at that, right?
Jesus...

[IntentionallyLeftBlank]

Interesting thread. I don't think I've ever had to pass a credit test to get a job. Maybe that's not a Texas thang I hope they use some level of discernment , somebody who went bankrupt successfully fighting cancer should still be able to get a job.

As for drug tests, frankly the only thing a urine test is reliable in detecting is marijuana. Everything else leaves your system too quickly. And addicts do hold down jobs and live among us. If you don't believe me just read Mike Grey's Drug Crazy: How We Got Into This Mess and How We Can Get Out probably the best indictment of the drug war I have read. Now I'm not saying that employers should hire addicts, I'm just saying they probably will every now and then. It's a huge economy and there's a lot of work to be done.

I feel badly for Detroit, but where there is a void it will be filled.

[coyote]

I doubt that having a couple of bong hits after dinner makes one less able to fulfill most job functions at Wal Mart, or even makes one more likely to steal. However, Wal Mart certainly has the right to test for it if they want to.

This story is just another bit of punctuation in the long, long story of Detroit's decline.

[pea-jay]

Superficially, this story is a reflection of black ghetto subculture driving out business. But it is not the cause, not by a long shot.
Detroit started its death spiral as soon as it made its bed with the Automotive Industry. The city grew strong when the industry prospered, reoriented itself to automotive culture and settlement practices. It failed to build even a rudimentary rail system or diversify its economic base and was left holding the bag when the US deindustrialized begining in the 1970s. A whole host of broad changes from globalization on downward drove this.

So what happens to any dying area. The best and brightest leave first. Retirees and the middle class leave next. The working poor leave as well.
What's left? The hopelessly dirt poor, uneducated, and addicts. With no wealth left, the social safety net falls apart and crime fills the void. This is not to say crime wasnt present before, but with a complete collapse of economic activity, crime and canibalization are the only things left. Not literal canibalism mind you, just the stealing of economic activity, physical spaces and tangible items.

I believe places like Detroit are a great window on the physical and social impacts of a decades-long collapse in economic activity. Sure it isnt being driven (completely) by energy related causes but the effect of both will be similar absent some way we can keep our economy growing (or even stable) in the next 50 years.

Two other things about detroit. It contains areas where crime has fallen--not due to any change in policing strategies or new economic prospects. No, the areas have just emptied out to the point where even the criminals have moved on because nothing remains. And it is in some of those areas where farms and gardens have sprouted or wilderness has returned.
What I cannot understand is how most people fail to understand Detroit's current misery is due it position in the overall economy.

[Byron100]

I got to see Detroit for the first time in October 2004, and I do have to say that it was a real eye-opener. For anyone that is not familiar with the Detroit metro area, the suburbs girdling the city *is* the city...with everything you find in other large American cities, except that it's more spread out with various CBD's scattered about.

Then my uncle (who I was visiting at the time, and resided in one of the suburban cities outside Detroit), took me on a ride toward the "city." On the way in, he told me to tell him when I thought we had passed the city limits of Detroit proper. It certainly wasn't hard to do, as the difference was like night and day. One minute, we were riding through a sea of economic prosperity, the next, nothing. That's right....*nothing*. Empty fields, empty houses, empty buildings. It was one of the most surreal experiences I've ever had in my life. A whole city...that's just empty.

Of course, there's downtown, with its three major casinos, plus one of the best used bookstores you'll find anywhere and a downright decent pub across the street from it...but other than that, that city is a goner. This talk of the last grocery chain leaving is certainly no surprise to me...what I do find surprising is why they don't just dissolve the city itself and make it a giant park...hell, just knock down what's left and put vegetable farms in there

I highly encourage folks to visit there if they can...it's really not that dangerous, not anymore...as even most of the criminals have left. And those of you complaining about high housing prices...well, here's one place that you can buy a house for the price of a stripped down Ford Focus...no kidding :/

[JohnLudi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pea-jay', 'S')uperficially, this story is a reflection of black ghetto subculture driving out business. But it is not the cause, not by a long shot.
Detroit started its death spiral as soon as it made its bed with the Automotive Industry. The city grew strong when the industry prospered, reoriented itself to automotive culture and settlement practices. It failed to build even a rudimentary rail system or diversify its economic base and was left holding the bag when the US deindustrialized begining in the 1970s. A whole host of broad changes from globalization on downward drove this.
So what happens to any dying area. The best and brightest leave first. Retirees and the middle class leave next. The working poor leave as well.
What's left? The hopelessly dirt poor, uneducated, and addicts. With no wealth left, the social safety net falls apart and crime fills the void. This is not to say crime wasnt present before, but with a complete collapse of economic activity, crime and canibalization are the only things left. Not literal canibalism mind you, just the stealing of economic activity, physical spaces and tangible items.
I believe places like Detroit are a great window on the physical and social impacts of a decades-long collapse in economic activity. Sure it isnt being driven (completely) by energy related causes but the effect of both will be similar absent some way we can keep our economy growing (or even stable) in the next 50 years.
Two other things about detroit. It contains areas where crime has fallen--not due to any change in policing strategies or new economic prospects. No, the areas have just emptied out to the point where even the criminals have moved on because nothing remains. And it is in some of those areas where farms and gardens have sprouted or wilderness has returned.
What I cannot understand is how most people fail to understand Detroit's current misery is due it position in the overall economy

[JohnLudi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Byron100', 'O')f course, there's downtown, with its three major casinos, plus one of the best used bookstores you'll find anywhere and a downright decent pub across the street from it...but other than that, that city is a goner. This talk of the last grocery chain leaving is certainly no surprise to me...what I do find surprising is why they don't just dissolve the city itself and make it a giant park...hell, just knock down what's left and put vegetable farms in there :/

[manu]

It sounds like the donut effect to me. A hole in the middle and surrounded by the burbs. I wonder how many more cities are now donuts.

[JohnLudi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('manu', 'I')t sounds like the donut effect to me. A hole in the middle and surrounded by the burbs. I wonder how many more cities are now donuts.

[TommyJefferson]

The fact that the citizens of Detroit elected horrible, corrupt politicians for the last 35 years had nothing to do with Detroit's current status as America's Zimbabwe.

It was all the decline of Americas auto industry, not decades of public fraud, and cancerous socialism.

[I_Like_Plants]

You need a credit check now to VOLUNTEER for the fucking RED CROSS now.
This is one reason I may actually be unhireable for the next couple of years, if not several. My financial crash means I'm going to look like shit on the credit check that's nearly universal to rent an apartment, get a job, rent a car, get decent car insurance, etc.

turns out there's quite a structure around here for the homeless and "in danger of homelessness" to get back on their feet, I may actually benefit greatly from going through some of their programs for financial education and vocational training.
I get to be one of those fuck ups everyone complains about.

[vision-master]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'O')n February 6, 2007, the Interim CEO and the National Chair of Volunteers of the Red Cross jointly announced that the policy had changed; (1) that only criminal background checks would be required of Red Cross volunteers; that credit checks would not be required except where separate permission was granted; and that mode of living checks would not be conducted on volunteers under any circumstances. However, the Red Cross' investigation company consent form still includes consent to the conduct of an "investigative consumer report." The Federal Trade Commission's definition of that term specifically includes "mode of living" checks and certain credit checks. The consent form that is required by the Red Cross, therefore, would permit both credit checks and mode of living checks, and not just criminal background checks. (2)
Although the Red Cross promises that it will not conduct a mode of living check or a credit check of volunteers, its contractor continues to require permission to conduct such investigations. ARRL has inquired of the Red Cross as to the reason for this, but to date has not received a satisfactory explanation.

[Mircea]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Gideon', 'L')ook, it's really simple.
You do blacks a disservice, just like all others, when you don't hold them accountable for their deeds..........

[vision-master]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')f you wanted to salvage Detroit, and Gary, Indiana and any other urban area with problems, the fastest cheapest solution is to disband the Department of Housing and Urban Development or at least do away with HUD sponsored housing.
Nothing will destroy a city or section of town faster than HUD housing. Dismantle the program and I guarantee you'll see movement and lots of it. Half of Detroit would be emptied out in 6 months or less.

[TommyJefferson]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', 'A')nd what will become of these people?

[vision-master]

Didn't you get a bunch of new guests after Katrina........

At least ya all ain't gonna freeze to death down dar anyhoo.