[mkwin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('clueless', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'H')ouse price growth has been experienced in most developed countries

[BigTex]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mkwin', 'O')ne more point. Serious climate change - in excess of 450 ppm co2 - could be impossible, as we might not have enough hydrocarbons to burn. The IPCC has not considered energy constraints in their climate models.

[clueless]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he definition of value is the price someone is willing and able to pay for something. Hence the value can go up and down.

House value is driven by many factors, demographics, GDP, zoning laws, income growth, social trends not just credit creation.

[clueless]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'm')kwin wrote:
One more point. Serious climate change - in excess of 450 ppm co2 - could be impossible, as we might not have enough hydrocarbons to burn. The IPCC has not considered energy constraints in their climate models.

[bonjaski]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dinopello', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('bonjaski', 's')ome facts:

1) the next 60years there is enough energy in form of electrons


What is this energy that you speak ? Conventional electron energy exists when there is a differential in electrons, and it takes energy to create this differential. Hydrogen is similar.

[clueless]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'C')lueless (although a little too focused on economics which is pretty much a moot point) understand the situation very well, from what I can see.

[bonjaski]

yes its interesting that SOME! metal prices are high, oil price is high,
but i don't feel no real inflation ...


clothe prices are just like always,
food is cheap,
cars are getting cheaper,
computers also,
price of public transport is also low


on the other hand profits are also rising, it doesn't seem that high oil or metal prices are really eating profits
(look at VW, mercedes, BMW, renault, fiat ... lufthansa)


i am optimistic, more then ever

lets hope that the oil price remains high

[Windmills]

The oil price is low right now, not high, and the variety of effects which you have chosen to ignore, despite them being displayed in various formats by other posters, are still in their infancy. At this point in the supply/demand imbalance, the poorest bidders in the oil market are being eliminated, such as the Africans. We aren't feeling the big effects yet because the price is still something we can afford for the moment.

Imagine this. If you, as a rich person, are in an auction for a painting against a group of poor people, you'll get a steal of a price for that painting. However, once the rich people file into the auction house, you're in for a fight. The price will no longer rise by a few cents here and there. It's going to skyrocket like nothing ever seen before. That's similar to the situation we now have. We're just bidding against poor people, poor countries, that can't afford to drive up the price of oil very much. There's still enough to go around for the rich countries, which is all that matters to those of us who "don't notice anything bad." Once the gulf between supply and demand gets to the point that all of the poor bidders have been driven out of the market and there's not quite enough for the rich to share, wealthy countries will be bidding against each other for the remaining oil. That's when we'll see the first amazing jumps in the price of oil. If you're having trouble seeing the effects of the increasing price of energy on the economy at this point, you'll surely see it then.

[return1880s]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BigTex', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mkwin', 'O')ne more point. Serious climate change - in excess of 450 ppm co2 - could be impossible, as we might not have enough hydrocarbons to burn. The IPCC has not considered energy constraints in their climate models.

[return1880s]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Windmills', 'T')he oil price is low right now, not high........................Once the gulf between supply and demand gets to the point that all of the poor bidders have been driven out of the market and there's not quite enough for the rich to share, wealthy countries will be bidding against each other for the remaining oil. That's when we'll see the first amazing jumps in the price of oil. If you're having trouble seeing the effects of the increasing price of energy on the economy at this point, you'll surely see it then.

[Judgie]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('bonjaski', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dinopello', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('bonjaski', 's')ome facts:

1) the next 60years there is enough energy in form of electrons


What is this energy that you speak ? Conventional electron energy exists when there is a differential in electrons, and it takes energy to create this differential. Hydrogen is similar.

[peripato]

Bonjaski, you are forgetting about the corrosive effects of exponential growth on your arguments. For example, (assuming all the problems associated with your sweeping claims are cast aside), even if it were possible to replace 50% of the world auto fleet tomorrow with plug-ins which were twice as fuel efficient as today's ICE's, at the current rate of growth the number of cars will have doubled in just 10 years erasing any gains achieved by such a futile undertaking.

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('bonjaski', 's')ome facts:

1) the next 60years there is enough energy in form of electrons or even hydrogen from coal, nuclear, sun, wind, biomass ...


2) there are enough (1,4trillion) hydrocarbons to sustain at least 70-80mbd for a long time


3) high oil, gas price doesn't lead to high inflation, since it has a minor impact on industry
(if you don't believe it, just question yourself if the triplicated oil price raised the price of your car, computer, food?, for me it didn't ... )


and now my killer argument:
one doomer argument in this forum is, that we can't shift fast enough to fossil carbon free technologies or rather that the impact of the shift would be too low.

Well this isn't true.

[BigTex]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('return1880s', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BigTex', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mkwin', 'O')ne more point. Serious climate change - in excess of 450 ppm co2 - could be impossible, as we might not have enough hydrocarbons to burn. The IPCC has not considered energy constraints in their climate models.

[NotMyBlood]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mkwin', 'm')kwin gets his popcorn........The carm before the storm.

[Judgie]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('NotMyBlood', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mkwin', 'm')kwin gets his popcorn........The carm before the storm.

[Narz]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('clueless', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'p')eakoil is not a problem (my opinion)

[TonyPrep]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('bonjaski', 't')he next 60years there is enough energy in form of electrons or even hydrogen from coal, nuclear, sun, wind, biomass ...

[retiredguy]

Narz,

I believe Clueless was refering to John Lennon.

[Mircea]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('bonjaski', 's')ome facts:

1) the next 60years there is enough energy in form of electrons or even hydrogen from coal, nuclear, sun, wind, biomass ...