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Hey Canadians; Wake UP!!

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Re: Hey Canadians; Wake UP!!

Unread postby kabu » Thu 05 Jul 2007, 14:08:01

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SpringCreekFarm', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kabu', '
')Could you be more specific? Did the Taliban attack the World Trade Center, or were they just "harbouring" a suspect that they had no reason to extradite until the widely established norms for extradition had been satisfied? And keep in mind, this is a terrorist that the US president said he's no longer concerned about. Most people have heard him say that. Can anyone here clarify that comment?


No. I cannot. I was just pointing out why Canada was involved at all. Please don't look for a pissing match with me because I don't like the shit that is going on around the world anymore than anyone else.

I'm not looking for a pissing match. I also know that you don't like what's going on *right now*, anymore than I do. However... if you justify their getting their foot in the door, then you make it a lot harder on yourself when you try to talk them out of the room.
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Re: Hey Canadians; Wake UP!!

Unread postby Plantagenet » Thu 05 Jul 2007, 14:12:32

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kabu', ' ')Did the Taliban attack the World Trade Center, or were they just "harbouring" a suspect that they had no reason to extradite until the widely established norms for extradition had been satisfied?


Your claims about the Taliban not having a reason to extradite the Al Qaeda mass murderers prior to the US invasion of Afghanistan is historically inaccurate.....I assumed you were ignorant of the facts when I suggested you read the "Looming Tower", but perhaps you just don't care about the facts.

The US had ALREADY been trying for years to get the Taliban to cooperate on extradition when the 9/11 attacks occurred.

Al Qaida attacks murdered hundreds of people in the 90s...for instance in Africa they bombed two US embassies, and they murdered more when they attacked the USS Cole. In both these cases, as well as others in the 90s, the US was unble to get cooperation, much less extradition assistance from the Taliban. It was precisely because the Taliban were sheltering Al Qaida that they were able to carry out the mass murder attacks on 9/11. :evil:
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Re: Hey Canadians; Wake UP!!

Unread postby kabu » Thu 05 Jul 2007, 14:50:24

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '
')Your claims about the Taliban not having a reason to extradite the Al Qaeda mass murderers prior to the US invasion of Afghanistan is historically inaccurate.....I assumed you were ignorant of the facts when I suggested you read the "Looming Tower", but perhaps you just don't care about the facts.

The US had ALREADY been trying for years to get the Taliban to cooperate on extradition when the 9/11 attacks occurred.

It's not that I don't care; it's just that you can't reason your position very well.

I asked for relevant facts. Just because the US did have- at least I assume that they did- sufficient evidence to make the case for extradition based upon other (long overdue) events, does not mean that they have sufficient evidence to make the case for extradition in relation to 9/11. Yet, they bombed a sovereign nation- with a government that they got into power in the first place- because they were "harbouring" the one responsible for 9/11. If the "do it or die" extradition was in relation to the events from the 90s, then they would have destroyed the Afghanistan in the 90s, rather then invite the Taliban over for some tea in the late 90s.

It's because people like you can't distinguish one event from another, that authors, maybe like one that wrote "The Looming Tower", can so easily blend it all together, delivering you a perfectly acceptable pretext. The world is a very complicated place. Try taking a closer look, next time.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', 'A')l Qaida attacks murdered hundreds of people in the 90s...for instance in Africa they bombed two US embassies, and they murdered more when they attacked the USS Cole. In both these cases, as well as others in the 90s, the US was unble to get cooperation, much less extradition assistance from the Taliban. :evil:
And yet it certainly didn't stop the US from trying to do lots of other business with the Taliban, after the fact. :)
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Re: Hey Canadians; Wake UP!!

Unread postby Plantagenet » Thu 05 Jul 2007, 15:08:16

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kabu', ' ')Just because the US did have- at least I assume that they did- sufficient evidence to make the case for extradition


You clearly don't understand the simple fact that the Taliban didn't respond to extradition requests from the US or other countries. Instead, they provided a safe haven for Al Qaida in Afghanistan, allowing Al Qaida to plan and carry out multiple mass murder attacks in Africa, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, and elsewhere during the 90s. The protection of the Taliban was critical in allowing Al Qaida to plan and carry out the 9/11 attack in 2001. 8)
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Re: Hey Canadians; Wake UP!!

Unread postby threadbear » Thu 05 Jul 2007, 15:17:34

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kabu', ' ')Just because the US did have- at least I assume that they did- sufficient evidence to make the case for extradition


You clearly don't understand the simple fact that the Taliban didn't respond to extradition requests from the US or other countries. Instead, they provided a safe haven for Al Qaida in Afghanistan, allowing Al Qaida to plan and carry out multiple mass murder attacks in Africa, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, and elsewhere during the 90s. The protection of the Taliban was critical in allowing Al Qaida to plan and carry out the 9/11 attack in 2001. 8)


Supporter of the elite status quo and disseminator of propaganda strikes again! Great performances, complete with heroic poetry this time. I mean, who could resist that?
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Re: Hey Canadians; Wake UP!!

Unread postby Plantagenet » Thu 05 Jul 2007, 15:21:52

Canada is the homeland of equality, justice and tolerance.

--Kim Campbell 8)
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Re: Hey Canadians; Wake UP!!

Unread postby kabu » Thu 05 Jul 2007, 15:37:55

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kabu', ' ')Just because the US did have- at least I assume that they did- sufficient evidence to make the case for extradition


You clearly don't understand the simple fact that the Taliban didn't respond to extradition requests from the US or other countries. Instead, they provided a safe haven for Al Qaida in Afghanistan, allowing Al Qaida to plan and carry out multiple mass murder attacks in Africa, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, and elsewhere during the 90s. The protection of the Taliban was critical in allowing Al Qaida to plan and carry out the 9/11 attack in 2001. 8)

If you're not going to address my argument, then don't bother cropping quotes from it.

It is true that the Taliban did not do more to combat terrorism than the US, as far as I can tell. I wonder if the Taliban even had the budget to take on Al Qaeda? Not that they would have. Nevertheless, this does not serve as a justification for the invasion and destruction of Afghanistan. And if it does, then it should also serve as the invasion and destruction of the US. Any takers?
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Re: Hey Canadians; Wake UP!!

Unread postby Plantagenet » Thu 05 Jul 2007, 16:47:28

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kabu', '
')If you're not going to address my argument, then don't bother cropping quotes from it.


I am addressing your aguments--- that's why I am quoting you and then refuting the argument you made in the words I quoted.

So far I've refuted your fantasy that the Taliban would extradite Al Qaida, as the historical facts show that the Taliban sheltered Al Qaida and refused to extradite them after their terrorist attacks. 8)
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Re: Hey Canadians; Wake UP!!

Unread postby eastbay » Thu 05 Jul 2007, 17:10:34

Well, maybe Afghanistan didn't have an extradition treaty with the US. Many countries don't.

So, since the US couldn't get the Afghan government to extradite bin Laden, the US had a big temper tantrum and decided to kill tens of thousands of (mostly) innocent Afghan citizens instead.

And the Canadians, as well as a bunch of other (mostly) NATO countries, signed on to assist the US in any way possible. That's criminal. And it's still going on with no end in sight.

'Cutting and running' is the only proper and noble course of action.
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Re: Hey Canadians; Wake UP!!

Unread postby Plantagenet » Thu 05 Jul 2007, 17:43:13

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('eastbay', 't')he Canadians, as well as a bunch of other (mostly) NATO countries, signed on to assist the US in any way possible. That's criminal.



I don't agree with you that Canadians are "criminal" for giving humanitarian and military aid to the government of Aghanistan.

Your position on this issue is indistinguishable from that of the Taliban or Al Qaida. 8)
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Re: Hey Canadians; Wake UP!!

Unread postby kabu » Thu 05 Jul 2007, 17:54:13

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kabu', '
')If you're not going to address my argument, then don't bother cropping quotes from it.


I am addressing your aguments--- that's why I am quoting you and then refuting the argument you made in the words I quoted.

I know that you're dumb as mud, but you have to understand that "the words that [you] quoted" did not contain an argument- they didn't even form a complete sentence; you quoted a mere fragment of a sentence! Why? Maybe because if you hadn't, then it'd be painfully obvious that your comments did not refute my point?

Isn't there a "Plantagenet v2.0" around? This one needs to be fucking recycled! 8)

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', 'S')o far I've refuted your fantasy that the Taliban would extradite Al Qaida, as the historical facts show that the Taliban sheltered Al Qaida and refused to extradite them after their terrorist attacks.

This is your argument? That the Taliban didn't extradite Bin Laden over the embassy bombing, despite- I looked it up- the US's courtroom testimony and satellite phone records; therefore, the Taliban wouldn't have extradited Bin Laden over 9/11, even if the evidence they requested was produced? That's what you call logic?

Furthermore, that because of this "truism", the US was justified in declaring war on Afghanistan, beginning a campaign that would include killing, as carpet bombing tends to, thousands of people, so that they could (allegedly) capture/kill Bin Laden? That this WOULD help them capture him? That they needed to destroy a government that was providing some stability to the land? Because this pathetic government, with a budget no bigger than my home city, was prevent them from getting Bin Laden, or anyone else?

Please, do clarify your idiocy before I go on. I'd hate to start refuting an argument that you couldn't of even thought up! 8)
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Re: Hey Canadians; Wake UP!!

Unread postby Plantagenet » Thu 05 Jul 2007, 18:05:28

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kabu', 't')hey needed to destroy a government that was providing some stability to the land?


Do you live in a complete fantasy world? There was no stability in Afghanistan in 2001.... The Taliban were fighting a very nasty civil war against the northern Alliance. 8)
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Re: Hey Canadians; Wake UP!!

Unread postby kabu » Thu 05 Jul 2007, 18:44:40

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kabu', 't')hey needed to destroy a government that was providing some stability to the land?


Do you live in a complete fantasy world? There was no stability in Afghanistan in 2001.... The Taliban were fighting a very nasty civil war against the northern Alliance. 8)

Keyword being "some", thank you. More than there is now.

Yes, they were fighting the NA in some parts of Afghanistan, but that was coming to a close. That band of warlords was loosing out. And as far as I can remember, only the nastiest were left (the ones that NATO put back into power), and the people preferred the Taliban to the nasty NA ones (I think there were some decent ones in the 90s though), because they were/are just as fundamentalist as the Taliban, but at least with the Taliban you know where you stand. I learned that after listening to the head of Afghanistan's leading womens' rights group. Yes, things have actually gotten worse for women there.

They're not even really gaining much ground inside of the official, Afghani goverment! You should hear from the female politician that just got assaulted in parliament and then expelled out of it, just for stating some inconvenient, insulting facts, as a woman. Nice shame of a government, there. But, I digress...

It's funny that you think there wasn't any stability, and thus order, in a country run by a government, which was in the middle of a "civil war". And yet at the same time, you expected them to reign in al Qaeda and immediately hand over its leader, a hero to many Afghanis for defending Afghanistan against the Soviet "invasion", over to the most hated nation on Earth. And that all of this had to be done immediately because he was a suspect of a crime that had just been committed. No evidence required to justify this immediacy either, by the way. And we're talking about a highly militant, powerful organization that the US can't even put down, let alone a pathetic, impoverished, Afghani government.

That's just fucking funny! 8)
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Re: Hey Canadians; Wake UP!!

Unread postby Plantagenet » Thu 05 Jul 2007, 18:51:30

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kabu', 'Y')es, they were fighting the NA in some parts of Afghanistan, but that was coming to a close.


Another delusional statement. In fact, the Northern Alliance and other anti-Taliban forces won significant military gains against the Taliban in 2000. In December alone they won two large victories.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_in_Afghanistan

Even the UN was increasing its pressure on the Taliban due to human rights abuses such as the Taliban's mass murder of prisoners, the forcible removal of women from the workplace, and the destruction of the giant Bhudda carvings and other ancient art treasures by some of the nuttier religious fanatics of the Taliban. 8)
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Re: Hey Canadians; Wake UP!!

Unread postby deMolay » Thu 05 Jul 2007, 19:36:22

Chretien was a crooked French Maggot with no backbone and no balls. The only reason he would not send our troops to Iraq was because he and his Inlaws had $12B US invested in the oil fields of Iraq. Canada has been run like a fiefdom for years by the Liberal Theives of Canada.
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Re: Hey Canadians; Wake UP!!

Unread postby kabu » Thu 05 Jul 2007, 19:58:30

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '
')Another delusional statement. In fact, the Northern Alliance and other anti-Taliban forces won significant military gains against the Taliban in 2000. In December alone they won two large victories.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_in_Afghanistan
Sorry, delusional statements are your department. A lot changes in 9 months. The NA still had some fortifications later on in 2001, but who would get control over Afghanistan was no longer up in the air. I can't source the military overviews supporting this, since I read them in papers/magazines that I threw out like 6 years ago, so I'll have to leave that generalization as being controversial. Couldn't care less; it's not even supporting my argument.

But like I said, I find it amusing that you're now downplaying, big time, the Talbian's control over Afghanistan, and thus, they're ability to strong-arm a powerful, international terrorist-organization that's operating there.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', 'E')ven the UN was increasing its pressure on the Taliban due to human rights abuses such as the Taliban's mass murder of prisoners, the forcible removal of women from the workplace, and the destruction of the giant Bhudda carvings and other ancient art treasures by some of the nuttier religious fanatics of the Taliban. 8)
I wont argue with you here. The Taliban were, and are, very much against human rights, especially womens' rights.

The NA also engaged in mass murder of prisoners, just so you know. A very fine documentary was made about this, and actually had it's own thread here like what... a year ago?
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Re: Hey Canadians; Wake UP!!

Unread postby Plantagenet » Thu 05 Jul 2007, 20:33:01

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kabu', ' ')who would get control over Afghanistan was no longer up in the air


Your claim that in 2000 you knew the Taliban were going to get control over Aghanistan is ridiculous given that the Taliban were swept from power less then a year later. A more accurate prediction in 2000 would have been that the NA would gain control.

In reality, in spite of your faith in their capabilities, the Taliban NEVER controlled Afghanistan. 8)
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Re: Hey Canadians; Wake UP!!

Unread postby kabu » Fri 06 Jul 2007, 00:21:46

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kabu', ' ')who would get control over Afghanistan was no longer up in the air


Your claim that in 2000 you knew the Taliban were going to get control over Aghanistan is ridiculous given that the Taliban were swept from power less then a year later. A more accurate prediction in 2000 would have been that the NA would gain control.
In reality, in spite of your faith in their capabilities, the Taliban NEVER controlled Afghanistan.

I never said they controlled Afghanistan. That's an invention of your own. And frankly, what we both agree on works in my argument's favor (you know... the one that you're no longer addressing), and against yours (if you actually had one... instead you do things like paste national anthems or share a link to a governmental website). Anyhow, your confidence in my saying otherwise just confirms your stupidity. Funny... you don't seem esl.

I do believe that the war between the Taliban and the NA was coming to a close, however. Not that is was at a close, but that it was just a matter of time. It's not something I "know" was happening- considering I don't even know if fairies or invisible unicorns exist- it's something that seemed to be coming- but anything can happen, especially take into account foreign intervention.

You think the NA would have won? Well, you're the first person that I've heard say that. Others might have thought so too, but I myself would have only believed it if I suspected that the US was about to invade Afghanistan, supporting the NA in the process. However I was referring to the battle between the two forces before the NA alliance became a NATO asset. You... do... realize this, do you... not? It wouldn't surprise me! 8)
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Re: Hey Canadians; Wake UP!!

Unread postby Plantagenet » Fri 06 Jul 2007, 12:11:26

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kabu', 'Y')ou think the NA would have won?


The Northern Alliance did win. Its a simple fact. 8)
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Re: Hey Canadians; Wake UP!!

Unread postby eastbay » Fri 06 Jul 2007, 12:28:07

The Northern Alliance did win. Its a simple fact.

Lol... nice one. Rediculous and funny stuff like that keep me checking these Open Discussion threads. :lol:
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