Peak Oil
Donate Bitcoin

Donate Paypal


PeakOil is You

PeakOil is You

Brainwashing: USA vs USSR

What's on your mind?
General interest discussions, not necessarily related to depletion.
Post a reply

Re: Brainwashing: USA vs USSR

Unread postby Plantagenet » Fri 15 Jun 2007, 13:51:20

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('denverdave', ' ')the point is that everyone in the USSR knew that. They may not have had had access to the truth, but it was obvious that everything they were told was a lie.


No it wasn't. Most people in the USSR believed the lies they were told by the government-controlled press. They never saw any information at all other then what the communists wanted them to see.

Look at North Korea and Cuba now.....there are millions of brainwashed little comrades running around in those countries today who think tin pot dictators like Kim Jong Il and Castro are geniuses who can do no wrong because thats what their radio, TV, newspaper, billboards, schools, books, political clubs, etc. etc. say over and over again year after year after year. 8)
Never underestimate the ability of Joe Biden to f#@% things up---Barack Obama
-----------------------------------------------------------
Keep running between the raindrops.
User avatar
Plantagenet
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 26765
Joined: Mon 09 Apr 2007, 03:00:00
Location: Alaska (its much bigger than Texas).
Top

Re: Brainwashing: USA vs USSR

Unread postby Pretorian » Fri 15 Jun 2007, 15:52:58

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('evilgenius', 'I')t started with being forced to recite the pledge of allegiance every school morning. There was a direct appeal to the same human instinct that Hitler appealed to with all of the rousing marching songs. To this day there is a stirring at the flag or the anthem. The feeling is visceral. It doesn't come from the mind but the body.



Yes it was always ridiculed me this pledge of allegiance repeating over and over and over. When did it start? Thank God we didnt have shit like that in SU.
What is stirring btw? I checked on dictionary.com it has like 60 meanings.
Pretorian
Light Sweet Crude
Light Sweet Crude
 
Posts: 4685
Joined: Sat 08 Apr 2006, 03:00:00
Location: Somewhere there
Top

Re: Brainwashing: USA vs USSR

Unread postby NoLogos » Fri 15 Jun 2007, 21:16:28

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pretorian', 'W')hat is stirring btw? I checked on dictionary.com it has like 60 meanings.


In this case, it means 'causes strong emotional feeling.'
User avatar
NoLogos
Peat
Peat
 
Posts: 68
Joined: Mon 13 Nov 2006, 04:00:00
Top

Re: Brainwashing: USA vs USSR

Unread postby I_Like_Plants » Sat 16 Jun 2007, 00:01:32

Yes, imagine a "stirring" feeling in your heart..... that's what it means in this context.

And I remember learning the Pledge in my backyard, before I even went to school. Needless to say it was said every morning in school until I was done with High School! It felt weird not doing it in college.
I_Like_Plants
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 3839
Joined: Sun 12 Jun 2005, 03:00:00
Location: 1st territorial capitol of AZ
Top

Re: Brainwashing: USA vs USSR

Unread postby Pretorian » Sat 16 Jun 2007, 05:48:22

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('denverdave', ' ')the point is that everyone in the USSR knew that. They may not have had had access to the truth, but it was obvious that everything they were told was a lie.


No it wasn't. Most people in the USSR believed the lies they were told by the government-controlled press. They never saw any information at all other then what the communists wanted them to see.

Look at North Korea and Cuba now.....there are millions of brainwashed little comrades running around in those countries today who think tin pot dictators like Kim Jong Il and Castro are geniuses who can do no wrong because thats what their radio, TV, newspaper, billboards, schools, books, political clubs, etc. etc. say over and over again year after year after year. 8)



it is true only to a certain extent.. While there are were a lot of zombies like that among citifolks who had their childhood and youth in big cities in 30s and 40s , however later on it was rare to meet anyone like that who was born in 60s, 70s.
This doesnt depend on information available really. I was disgusted with all this soviet hype before I could even read. Even red star on New Year Eve's tree was annoying me. I remember feeling for Germans in war movies , ets. Just becouse they were against this shit. When I went to elementary school , my first teacher was a communist, and a survivor of Leningrad blockage. Needless to say she hated all Germans and was a fierce commie.
I dont know ab states, but in SU first teacher spends with kids 5-7 hours a day 6 days a week for 3 years. She is the only teacher.
You may imagine how much we 've been told ets.
So, when I was nine, I started a group. I elaborated a questionnaire with which I started iterviewing potential recruits. It was taking usually 2 meetings 1-2 hour each for me to make a positive decision about someone. Usually they were kids of my age, 8-10 years old. It was a high-hierarchy structure where recruiter was always higher in rank than anyone he recrouts and so on . Once they were in , they were taught basic principles of the group and how to look for new members and interview them.
The aims were simple: once we grown up (16-17 yo I thought that time is mature enough) we will break into army arsenals, arm ourselves and take over the power. Perhaps we'd waite till quite a few of us will be serving in the army (18) to have easier access to heavy machinery ets. Further on we had definite things in mind of what we will do differently, which, as I found out later, was very much like Nazi Germany. We used SS runes and swastika as our principle symbols btw.
Less than 1 year later there are were 26 members in 3 major cities of Ukraine. To my own surprise, it was me who recrouted the rat. Actually, 2 of them, and in the same day. They failed passing my interview but I took them anyway, thats what greed does. One decided to go long-term digging info, another (my classmate) went to his mama the first day. Needless to say the next day I was sitting at the table of our school's ideology worker , then high school principal, then KGB officer explaining "who taught me all this stuff" , "where is he" . "who else is into this" and a plethora of other questions. Every day I went to school and all I did there was talking to those guys, telling tales, playing stupid, for almost two weeks. Our small apartment was searched too, I dont know whether they came up with any warrant.
After all I had to admit, to their surprise, that it was all my idea , as I understood they will not leave me alone till they find "that guy".
One moment I almost laughed: they brought in my teacher, (who was at the time in the hospital with heart attack or something), and , after some cross-interrogation or whatever it is called, she said to me ( with quite a bit of fear in her voice)
Her exact words:
"But, (Pretorian) , I didnt teach you ANY of this!!!"

She was absolutely sure that all my thinking is whatever she is "teaching"me.

After this , I told my group ( A faschist-SS party, nonetheless) to lay low for awhile , and I didnt have enough will to resuscitate it later...

By the way , by that time I didnt know all those atrocities commies did, I didnt know that 2 of my greatgrandfathers were starved to death, that my grandfather was forced to attack german machine-gunners with a spade , that my peasant grandmothers had less rights than dogs till like 1965 ( no passports/IDs, couldnt leave the slavery work on state farms) and a plethora of other things. Perhaps If I did know I would have that will...


So no... Not everyone can be made a sheep.
Pretorian
Light Sweet Crude
Light Sweet Crude
 
Posts: 4685
Joined: Sat 08 Apr 2006, 03:00:00
Location: Somewhere there
Top

Re: Brainwashing: USA vs USSR

Unread postby Rafa » Sun 17 Jun 2007, 06:43:45

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', 'L')ook at North Korea and Cuba now.....


I don't know about Korea; but about Cuba you are wrong.
Cubans have much more access to foreign informations than people in the US have.
Cuban newspapers regularly republish articles from european or US newspapers; have you already seen a single article from cuban press published in the New York Times, for example?

What is indeed forbidden in Cuba is pornography and propaganda paid by a foreign power with the aim to overthrown the government.
But anything else is not restricted.

The situation is VERY different to what was done in the USSR.
But it's true that people from the United States cannot know, as their government forbid them to go to Cuba to see by themselves.
User avatar
Rafa
Lignite
Lignite
 
Posts: 241
Joined: Thu 01 Sep 2005, 03:00:00
Top

Re: Brainwashing: USA vs USSR

Unread postby ohanian » Sun 17 Jun 2007, 18:52:20

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Rafa', '
')The situation is VERY different to what was done in the USSR.
But it's true that people from the United States cannot know, as their government forbid them to go to Cuba to see by themselves.


Can someone explain this to me.

If the government of USA forbids its citizen from going to Cuba then how come there are thousands of American Tourist in Cuba paying for their manhood , eh?, to be physically manipulated ?

Please explain it to me because I'm very very stupid.
User avatar
ohanian
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1553
Joined: Sun 17 Oct 2004, 03:00:00
Top

Re: Brainwashing: USA vs USSR

Unread postby NoLogos » Sun 17 Jun 2007, 22:59:12

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ohanian', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Rafa', '
')The situation is VERY different to what was done in the USSR.
But it's true that people from the United States cannot know, as their government forbid them to go to Cuba to see by themselves.


Can someone explain this to me.

If the government of USA forbids its citizen from going to Cuba then how come there are thousands of American Tourist in Cuba paying for their manhood , eh?, to be physically manipulated ?


I once had a colleague go to Cuba for a conference; he first left the US for another country and then went to Cuba. There are no direct flights from the US, AFAIK. Hope that helped...
User avatar
NoLogos
Peat
Peat
 
Posts: 68
Joined: Mon 13 Nov 2006, 04:00:00
Top

Re: Brainwashing: USA vs USSR

Unread postby Plantagenet » Sun 17 Jun 2007, 23:33:15

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Rafa', '[')Cuban newspapers regularly republish articles from european or US newspapers; have you already seen a single article from cuban press published in the New York Times, for example?


The Cuban press is all government controlled. They only print things that the communist censors approve as being politcally correct.

Cuba is a relict totalitarian state of the 20th century.

This is the 21st century.

Have you heard of the internet???....If you want to read Cuban newspapers go to their web site....now you can read the government controlled Cuban press (Gramma) or any other news from any other country you want any time you want on the internet.

In contrast, the Cuban government controls all access to the internet (of course) so average Cubans can't access it. Totalitarians like the Cuban communists are always afraid of letting their people have the freedom learn about the outside world. :roll:
Never underestimate the ability of Joe Biden to f#@% things up---Barack Obama
-----------------------------------------------------------
Keep running between the raindrops.
User avatar
Plantagenet
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 26765
Joined: Mon 09 Apr 2007, 03:00:00
Location: Alaska (its much bigger than Texas).
Top

Re: Brainwashing: USA vs USSR

Unread postby Rafa » Mon 18 Jun 2007, 19:52:43

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ohanian', 'I')f the government of USA forbids its citizen from going to Cuba then how come there are thousands of American Tourist in Cuba


Those are "illegal tourists"; if the US governmen can prove it, they can be fined things like 50,000 dollars, and I think even jailed.
Of course, enforcing it to all "illegal tourists" would be too difficult, it would only be used selectively to harass and muth shut specific targets.
User avatar
Rafa
Lignite
Lignite
 
Posts: 241
Joined: Thu 01 Sep 2005, 03:00:00
Top

Re: Brainwashing: USA vs USSR

Unread postby Rafa » Mon 18 Jun 2007, 20:07:22

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', 'T')he Cuban press is all government controlled.


Not all; there are also newspapers edited by NGOs, and churches; they may not be the most read, but they exist.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')In contrast, the Cuban government controls all access to the internet (of course) so average Cubans can't access it. Totalitarians like the Cuban communists are always afraid of letting their people have the freedom learn about the outside world. :roll:


That's true and false.
It's true that most cubans don't have access to international internet (only to local cuban networks).
It is falsa that it is due to a will to censorship access.
Actually, if you pay for it, you can access any web outside; some people already tested, they were expecting censoring, and were surprized not to find it.
But that access is extremely expensive, and not affordable for average cubans.
Some cubans have free internet access at their workplaces, depending on their workign areas (for example doctors and reporters have free internet access).

The reason of those limitations is that the bandwidth for the WHOLE nation is the same as that of a single big tourists hotel in Miami; it comes all by satellite, which is extremly costly and extremely expensive.

And that is so because the United States has a bloquade policiy against Cuba, so Cuba is effectively forbidden to connect to the optical fiber network that passes not long off its coasts.

But that will change soon, an optical fiber connection between Cuba and Venezuela is being built (with chinese technology) so once it is operational Cuba will have a very good bandwidth connectivity and any average cuban would be able to connect and see whatever he wants; and he would be also able to TELL his cuban point of vue, something the US government is very afraid of.
Currently there is a very large campaing of formation to the use of computers and internet going on in Cuba; any children of any school is taught, there are "joven clubs" in all main cities, where people, mainly youth, can use computers and networks.

You may very well see in some years from now, several cubans posting here in peakoil.com, from Cuba; they would be able to tell a lot about energy saving and biological farming.
User avatar
Rafa
Lignite
Lignite
 
Posts: 241
Joined: Thu 01 Sep 2005, 03:00:00
Top

Re: Brainwashing: USA vs USSR

Unread postby LaLaLand » Mon 18 Jun 2007, 22:36:13

Noam Chomsky describes how governments, people who control large scale broadcasting networks, and fairly free media systems propagate and maintain systems of perception in his book Necessary Illusions.

I think its rather obvious to most people who have been on the internet for some time what a truly free media system looks like and how it operates. One of the things I really like about the net is its constant evolution. Its possible to completely avoid commercialism on the net while gaining the ability to fact check claims made by the powerful. Its also possible to engage in what people really want rather than what the powerful want us to do via coercion.

BUT, humans will always try to coerce one another in order to jockey for position.
User avatar
LaLaLand
Peat
Peat
 
Posts: 78
Joined: Thu 16 Dec 2004, 04:00:00
Top

Re: Brainwashing: USA vs USSR

Unread postby Plantagenet » Mon 18 Jun 2007, 22:47:06

Cuba cracks down on internet use

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3386413.stm

Cuban government increasing their efforts to stop Cubans from accessing and using the internet. :roll:

------------

Communist thought police in action. :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D
Never underestimate the ability of Joe Biden to f#@% things up---Barack Obama
-----------------------------------------------------------
Keep running between the raindrops.
User avatar
Plantagenet
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 26765
Joined: Mon 09 Apr 2007, 03:00:00
Location: Alaska (its much bigger than Texas).
Top

Re: Brainwashing: USA vs USSR

Unread postby Rafa » Tue 19 Jun 2007, 11:35:34

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', 'C')uba cracks down on internet use


If you read correctly, the whole article, instead of stoping at the spined title, you can see that what is actually targedt is theft (stealing passwords and selling in black market user id and passwords; stealing of bandwith) and hacking.

All countries have similar laws; you think that I can steal your login and password you use with your internet access provider and navigate on the internet while you are paying the bill and no law will punish me?

As I said previously, the bandwith for the WHOLE COUNTRY is extremely limitated, due to politics imposed by the United States on internet operators to not give connectivity to Cuba.
As a result, it is extremely expensive to have an access, and the small bandwidth means it collapses if too much people navigate; it is an absolute need to limit the number of people accessing the internet, and priority is given to people NEEDING it (due to their jobs), to public institutions, schools.
People stealing bandwidth for themselves means that the bandwith has still to be paid by the one (individual or institution) that has been stolen, but also that the rightful owner of the connection cannot navigate, or at a much degraded quality, as the bandwith is occupied by the thief (and usually it is to download porn or crackware, that is, consuming a lot of bandwidth).

Go again read that article, put aside the spin and the opinions of the reporter, and look only at objective facts: NOWHERE does it says anything about censoring; just that the access is being more expensive, and that there would be increased severity on people stealing access without paying.
That's a normal behaviour dealing with a scarce ressource.

Once bandwidth won't be a scarcity anymore, things will change.
User avatar
Rafa
Lignite
Lignite
 
Posts: 241
Joined: Thu 01 Sep 2005, 03:00:00
Top

Re: Brainwashing: USA vs USSR

Unread postby NoLogos » Tue 19 Jun 2007, 21:39:24

I used to think the BBC was a bit better than the main-stream media; perhaps it once was. But they don't cover things like Peak Oil, and they screw up upon occasion...

http://shoestringcentury.blogspot.com/2 ... dence.html

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
User avatar
NoLogos
Peat
Peat
 
Posts: 68
Joined: Mon 13 Nov 2006, 04:00:00
Top

Re: Brainwashing: USA vs USSR

Unread postby Plantagenet » Tue 19 Jun 2007, 22:59:34

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Rafa', 'O')nce bandwidth won't be a scarcity anymore, things will change.



Yes, I'm sure Castro will institute a glorious 5-year-plan to increase bandwidth in Cuba....meanwhile, the reality is that the communists have transformed Cuba from the richest to the 2nd poorest country in latin America in only 50 years. :P :P :P :P :P :P :P
Never underestimate the ability of Joe Biden to f#@% things up---Barack Obama
-----------------------------------------------------------
Keep running between the raindrops.
User avatar
Plantagenet
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 26765
Joined: Mon 09 Apr 2007, 03:00:00
Location: Alaska (its much bigger than Texas).
Top

Re: Brainwashing: USA vs USSR

Unread postby Pretorian » Wed 20 Jun 2007, 06:37:33

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ferrelgiraffe', ' ')I pl;edge allegience to the flag of the United states of america.

This is brainwashing? I don't think so. If you do not agree to this you should join another country. You do this to become a citizen.

I think 95-96% of all who are repeating it day after day after day are already citizens. They dont need to say anything, much less repeat it 26729 times. By the way what happens with the kids who refuse to repeat it ? They get medicated? Locked up ? Bad grades? They disappear?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ferrelgiraffe', '[')Brainwashing is saying KIM JONG IS MASTER when he beats me he is good!

you're kind of confused, brainwashing is this:

Making you think something you would not think otherwise by force, or coercion or mostly by fear.


Brainwashing, in general, is an intent to incline whomever's thinking and believes toward the benefit of whoever is brainwashing. If you want to think that the pledge of allegiance, repeated every day is not brainwashing, suit yourselv.


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ferrelgiraffe', '
')and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God

with liberty and justice for all. THis means if the leader breaks the law he goes to jail too

it means no one is above the law

they HATE this, but it is in our pledge, and it will stay there.

you should repeat that every day three times, liberty and justice for all equally, no matter who you know, that is so cool.

this is exactly the opposite of what the communists teach.
freedom of religion, personal conscience and and liberty to think your own thoughts is wonderful. China won't allow you to view this website you know.

they hate freedom to think.


no, the pledge is not brainwashing, and to say "justice and liberty for all", continuously, is a really, really good idea.

I would like to add a few verses.

And allow us conscience and personal thought so that we can
with love thencare for all.
sorry,. disagree with you altogether.



Dude, to put it shortly, I wouldnt be surprised if you stand up from your sofa every time you see The President on TV screen, whatever shmuck is in the office.
Pretorian
Light Sweet Crude
Light Sweet Crude
 
Posts: 4685
Joined: Sat 08 Apr 2006, 03:00:00
Location: Somewhere there
Top

Re: Brainwashing: USA vs USSR

Unread postby NoLogos » Wed 20 Jun 2007, 11:43:42

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ferrelgiraffe', 'p')robably it is because of some large countries that boycott them?
Lets take credit if we did something anyway. Can't blame Castro, if the borders were open their cigars would definitely sell.


Take a tiny island, put it close to a huge powerful country who does everything possible to destroy it economically, and wind up with an island nation that, tho poor, has neighborhood doctors and manages to get thru an 'artificial' peak oil moment without a major dieoff. While one may question Castro's methods, the people aren't burning barricades in the streets.
Damn corporate toadies and all their propaganda! :x
User avatar
NoLogos
Peat
Peat
 
Posts: 68
Joined: Mon 13 Nov 2006, 04:00:00
Top
PreviousNext
Post a reply

Return to Open Topic Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests