[lys3rg0]

I saw Michael Moore's latest movie today... but I won't be so quick to pass judgement, since I'm from Europe and all. So I'd like to hear a few opinions from the good folks in the US of A. Doesn't it bother you that the terrorists of 9/11 get better healthcare than the firemen that saved lives that day?

[strider3700]

Is it even playing here yet? I see no signs of it

[smallpoxgirl]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('lys3rg0', 'D')oesn't it bother you that the terrorists of 9/11 get better healthcare than the firemen that saved lives that day?

[I_Like_Plants]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('strider3700', 'I')s it even playing here yet? I see no signs of it

[strider3700]

Canada had no problem showing his other movies and I doubt this one will be squashed either since my understanding is it praises our medical system.

I did a search on every theater in BC and Alberta and got no show times so maybe it doesn't start here for a few more days.

[Twilight]

I think what's going to hurt is the revelation that people somewhere else are better off. The image of the black couple laughing about how their healthcare is free, that Britain is not America, that's going to be jarring for a few. But they will rationalise it away within a week.

[lys3rg0]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('strider3700', 'I')s it even playing here yet? I see no signs of it

[da23]

just watched it, he came to europe it's no secret we pay a small contribution each week in wages to cover part of the costs.

eye opener for me was when he took the patients who had insurance but denied treatment to Cuba.

it's a small world

[lawnchair]

Health care has made slaves of Americans.

Compare the vacation time taken by Americans and Euros. Is it because we're all real dedicated? Indispensible? Hardly.

It's because if you become sick, or have a child with an illness, you cannot, ever, risk quitting or being fired. Hiring companies aren't supposed to ask about your health situation, but they sure find out. If they will offer you insurance, it will be impossibly expensive. Thus, Americans work 65-hour weeks with 3 days off per year, just to keep the insurance they have.

Of course, as Sicko points out, just having insurance doesn't mean you won't get screwed when you actually get sick.

So far, I'm lucky to be young and healthy. I have an individual catastrophic plan and pay $700 a year (though rising as I get older). Supposedly my insurer will cover costs between $2500 (annual deductible) and $3mil if I suddenly become seriously ill. I haven't actually used a penny... I haven't seen a health care worker in 13 years. Scared to, actually. If they found something, my insurance would likely become unaffordable. So, I've paid $10k into health care I've never used. Still a good deal when you realize how quickly bills can get to $200k or much more.

I've had the possibility of employer insurance before, but the options sucked pretty badly and I really like the ability to quit working and live on savings or low-wage work for a while if my employer demands more overtime than I want or reneges on vacation. It puts a *lot* of power back into my hands. Friends from Canada consider the ability to quit working for a few months without risking their health to be a huge benefit. I agree enough to be seriously considering immigration.

The amazing part is, between Medicare (elderly), Medicaid (poor), Veteran's Administration care, military and dependent care, federal/state employee care, and tax deductions to businesses offering health care, US taxpayers pay about as much per capita on government health care as do the Canadians, Aussies, French, etc. But, additionally we pay billions more in premiums and a third of our population has no coverage at all. W T F?

[strider3700]

have any american's come up here and paid for medical out of their own pockets? I remember when I was little and broke my arm seeing a price list of what various emergency room treatments cost and thinking that broken arms weren't that expensive a couple hundred for X-rays and casting if I remember correctly. That was for people without coverage.

Or is it just surgery type issues that are really expensive in the states?

[lawnchair]

If you're willing to pay cash, many family practice docs will go pretty cheap on a broken bone or common flu. Honestly, nurse practitioners should be enough for those instances.

I've never known anyone going to Canada for cheaper fee-pay healthcare (except LASIK eye surgery), but I've known many who do some things (cosmetic surgery and dentistry at least) in Mexico. I know one person indirectly who flew to Bangalore for some kind of more involved non-cancerous growths.

However, yes prices can go over what you might think quickly. I took a friend who fell off a bicycle in for a mild concussion. They ascertained he had insurance and he had an instant very-expensive CT scan. Probably wouldn't have been the case in any other country. MRIs are just as frequent. Many are the small hospital who now have two MRI suites. They got sold on (and kickbacks on) newer technology, but hadn't paid off the old one. Since they are underutilized, any patient they can get in there helps pay it off.

[lys3rg0]

If you still aren't sure whether this movie is worth watching, maybe this will make up your mind:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=V2sFT7T0mCs

http://youtube.com/watch?v=joaAfBr9tAE

[I_Like_Plants]

I tell you, the Empire can try to stifle this film, but it will be a huge hit. Just about everyone in the Empire has health issues or someone in their family that has.

Aside from the top 10% running things and owning everything in the Empire, the other 90% are beginning to realize they're being scammed. I'm sure Marx wrote that a healthy middle class allowed the owning class to operate relatively unmolested, but we're eliminating the middle class in the Empire. That way leads to revolution.

[smallpoxgirl]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('lys3rg0', 'A') socialised system works to provide a service and at the same time reduces or eliminates the worry of financial hardship in case of illness. Furthermore, unlike the insurance system, it places a great deal of effort into preventive medicine.

[lys3rg0]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('smallpoxgirl', 'T')hat's not necessarily true. All that socialized medicine does is shift the responsibility for payment from the individual to the larger society.

[smallpoxgirl]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('lys3rg0', 'N')ope. That's not all there is to it. That's just corporate propaganda. With a centralised system you can implement rigurous national health policies, such as paying the doctors more not just for treating illness, but for informing the population about health risks, and paying bonuses for low cholesterol rates or low count of high blood pressure cases etc.

[lys3rg0]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('smallpoxgirl', 'Y')our system is based on the exact same scientific medicine model as the American system. Scientific medicine is intrinsically profit motivated. That's why the robber barons invested so much into creating it.

[smallpoxgirl]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('lys3rg0', 'I') won't comment on the rest of your assertions until you provide some trustworthy sources to back up those claims. But i fail to see why you believe scientific medicine is the main problem, and not the way it is being used. What the hell do you propose we should use in a better system? Unscientific medicine? Voodoo?