[advancedatheist]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gnm', 'A')dvanced, wind is one of the few alternative energy systems which has a fairly high return on investment. There is no reason even a 19th century economy couldn't build and maintain wind generators. Maybe not 400ft monsters out in the sea, but certainly large land based ones. Now if we can get past the NIMBY crap.-G

[denverdave]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('advancedatheist', 'T')he whole process requires a massive subsidy of energy from fossil fuels to work, in other words, indicating that the windmill technology can't bootrstrap and sustain itself as the oil supply continues to decline. But the series just ignorantly passes this effort off as a "solution" to the energy crisis instead of a feel-good exercise.

[denverdave]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Windmills', 'M')ost optimists discussing wind and solar power often fail to mention that decent energy storage is not yet in our grasp. One result is that for every unit of installed wind or solar, you need a larger amount of conventional generating capacity to ensure that you don't have an intermittent system. Wind and solar can't stand on their own. They're more like conservation systems than anything, allowing us to stretch our fossil fuel reserves a little farther. And as with all conservation efforts, they will be undone by Jevons', the fact that we greedily cling to an infinite growth/consumption economic model, and constant population growth.

[Armageddon]

There will always be oil in the ground, always. Civilization will collapse economically and massive die off will happen LONG before all the oil will be used up. When we are down to only 60 mbpd, the economy would be destroyed.

[mgibbons19]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('denverdave', '
')And about conservation efforts being undone by Jevon's paradox: Of course they will, thats the whole point, to free up more resources that would otherwise go to waste. We don't need to worry about reducing our fossil fuel consumption, reality will take care of that. Our problem is how we are going to adapt to it.

[Twilight]

Wind is a stop-gap which can slow, but not arrest our descent, if we give it sufficiently high priority when allocating energy and mineral resources. The problem is eventually this will only be possible under the auspices of an unpopular command economy.

Like anything else, wind is not a magic bullet, but so long as you do not go in with unrealistic expectations, it will do a few things which you want it to do. It just comes at a cost, on the downslope you will have to make painful sacrifices.

[nth]

The scary part of this show is that they are showing researchers who are willing to use methane hydrates. If we do use it, then we will have plenty of natural gas to burn!

[peripato]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Falconoffury
', 'H')as it ever occurred to them that maybe we won't?

[Judgie]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('nth', 'T')he scary part of this show is that they are showing researchers who are willing to use methane hydrates. If we do use it, then we will have plenty of natural gas to burn!

[Doly]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Judgie', '
')The big problem with mining hydrates, is that they play a critical role in the stabilization of the seabed in the areas in which they can be found. Remember, they are usually covered by a comparatively thin crust (often only made up of soft sediments) and deposits can be up to a hundred or more meters in depth. Not something you want to collapse, unless you like surfing, like I do

[Judgie]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Doly', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Judgie', '
')The big problem with mining hydrates, is that they play a critical role in the stabilization of the seabed in the areas in which they can be found. Remember, they are usually covered by a comparatively thin crust (often only made up of soft sediments) and deposits can be up to a hundred or more meters in depth. Not something you want to collapse, unless you like surfing, like I do

[nth]

Methane hydrates are unstable. Mining these might trigger a big explosion, so yes, it may cause a tsunami or simply release a whole lot of methane into the atmosphere.

[halcyon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('advancedatheist', 'i')t shows the construction of huge wind mills for generating electricity in the North Sea off of the Netherlands. The blades require diesel trucks to move from the factory to a ship, and the ship of course needs bunker fuel to transport the blades and foundation for installation in a rough sea. The whole process requires a massive subsidy of energy from fossil fuels to work, in other words, indicating that the windmill technology can't bootrstrap and sustain itself as the oil supply continues to decline. But the series just ignorantly passes this effort off as a "solution" to the energy crisis instead of a feel-good exercise.

[Twilight]

Wouldn't there also be a buoyancy problem for anything floating over the release?

[Pablo2079]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')ouldn't there also be a buoyancy problem for anything floating over the release?

[Tanada]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('nth', 'M')ethane hydrates are unstable. Mining these might trigger a big explosion, so yes, it may cause a tsunami or simply release a whole lot of methane into the atmosphere.

[Judgie]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tanada', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('nth', 'M')ethane hydrates are unstable. Mining these might trigger a big explosion, so yes, it may cause a tsunami or simply release a whole lot of methane into the atmosphere.

[TheDude]

Clathrate Gun Hypothesis. This has been hashed out on this forum before. A formerly prolific and quite knowledgable member named Devil summed up the whole scheme of mucking about with methane hydrates as suicidal.
Of course we are mucking about with them; Japan examines ways to harvest frozen fuel - The Washington Times. Could be the ultimate transport fuel; or kill more life on Earth than anything in the past 550 million years.
We will be a bunch of baked potatoes quite soon anyway if things keep heating up. "Humans suck. We're a virus with shoes."

[yesplease]

The useful work done by the heavy fuel oils to get those turbines up is likely a small fraction of the useful work the energy provided by them will do over their lifetimes.

[Tanada]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Judgie', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tanada', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('nth', 'M')ethane hydrates are unstable. Mining these might trigger a big explosion, so yes, it may cause a tsunami or simply release a whole lot of methane into the atmosphere.