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Burning Man!!!

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General interest discussions, not necessarily related to depletion.

Re: Burning Man!!!

Unread postby threadbear » Mon 11 Jun 2007, 02:11:28

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TWilliam', 'T')ho' I've never been to Burning Man, I personally feel that we could use more events such as this. The "tribal orgy" has been a basic element of human culture since the dawn of man, one that serves to renew and strengthen our connections with, and empathy for, our fellow humans. I think a case can be made for the idea that it is the rise of the "Cult of the Individual" that is at the heart of many of the problems we are now facing as a species. It's easier to justify "me first" thinking and the actions that follow when one has no sense of connection with others...


Eggsactly. No commercial enterprises are allowed either, which is very cool. I'd give anything to be able to go. It's been a dream of mine for years. I'm sure most of the people on this thread are a couple of decades younger than me, but some of them seem so old, so curmudgeonly, so devoid of spirit. They have to realize that, come what may, we have to retain the capacity for joy wonder and maintain tribal connections.
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Re: Burning Man!!!

Unread postby I_Like_Plants » Mon 11 Jun 2007, 02:49:44

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Shannymara', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', 'I')'m sure most of the people on this thread are a couple of decades younger than me, but some of them seem so old, so curmudgeonly, so devoid of spirit.

((d(energy per capita)/dt < 0) during childhood) -> (old, curmudgeonly, devoid of spirit)

Nature at work.


Damn ain't that the truth Shanny.

I'm 45, not old enough to be an old grump, but as I was explaining to a 60-something buddy today, my fundamental experiences growing up and through adulthood were those of want, privation, getting foreclosed out of the family house, being hungry, being on welfare, no jobs, parents both died in poverty, yadda yadda, and his experiences were fundamentally those of plenty.

He said well he had it rough, he had to save up and buy his own car while in high school.

OK, but I didn't own a car until I was 30, and anything, anything I got at all, like $3 from cleaning someone's yard, had to be given up to feed the family - and it did, it was commendeered but it had to be commendeered, it was better than going to bed hungry.

No jobs no nothing, having to take jobs too dirty and low-paid for most people, having to to outwork everyone in the shop as a repair tech and still making less than the guys in shipping & receiving....

I think it shapes a person, look at all those Depression folks, who had their formative years then, they were cautious and gloomy. I think it had to be during their formative years, childhood up into early adulthood.

But most white Americans didn't experience the recessions of the 70s, 80s, 90s as severely as I have, there are a LOT of clueless ppl wandering around the Empire....
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Re: Burning Man!!!

Unread postby TommyJefferson » Mon 11 Jun 2007, 11:50:39

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', 'N')o commercial enterprises are allowed either, which is very cool...we have to retain the capacity for joy wonder and maintain tribal connections.


Tickets for Burning Man are $280. If you think that many people can eat, drive, and party without "allowing" commercial enterprises, you are either very naive or willfully ignorant.

In Texas we have a similarly retarded event called http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burning_Flipside

Although they promote themselves as "progressive" and "socially concious", the organizers were horrified when I suggested allowing the Rainbow People in without charge...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rainbow_Gathering

There is totally nothing wrong with making a buck enabling throngs of repressed people to get together for a week of freedom to screw and do drugs.

Just don't hypocritically dress it up with a bunch of hippie social consciousness foolishness and pretend it's something it's not.

If there's one thing I hate about hippies and leftists, it's their hypocracy. It's sickening.
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Re: Burning Man!!!

Unread postby smallpoxgirl » Mon 11 Jun 2007, 12:47:30

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TommyJefferson', ' ')I suggested allowing the Rainbow People in without charge...


Are you a Rainbow Tommy?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')here is totaly nothing wrong with making a buck enabling throngs of repressed people to get together for a week of freedom to screw and do drugs.

Just don't hypocritically dress it up with a bunch of hippie social conciousness foolishness and pretend that it's something it's not.

I don't necessarily disagree. I don't necessarily want to go to something like Woodstock 2, but I don't really care if other people do. The art snob thing gets under my skin though. Guess what. Making a paper mache heart and lighting it on fire does not make you some sort of enlightened person or give you a reason to act all superior. Personally I'd rather hang with Turtle drinking beer and knapping arrow heads.
Last edited by smallpoxgirl on Mon 11 Jun 2007, 13:28:07, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Burning Man!!!

Unread postby threadbear » Mon 11 Jun 2007, 13:06:18

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TommyJefferson', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', 'N')o commercial enterprises are allowed either, which is very cool...we have to retain the capacity for joy wonder and maintain tribal connections.


Tickets for Burning Man are $280. If you think that many people can eat, drive, and party without "allowing" commercial enterprises, you are either very naive or willfully ignorant.

In Texas we have a similarly retarded event called http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burning_Flipside

Although they promote themselves as "progressive" and "socially concious", the organizers were horrified when I suggested allowing the Rainbow People in without charge...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rainbow_Gathering

There is totally nothing wrong with making a buck enabling throngs of repressed people to get together for a week of freedom to screw and do drugs.

Just don't hypocritically dress it up with a bunch of hippie social consciousness foolishness and pretend it's something it's not.

If there's one thing I hate about hippies and leftists, it's their hypocracy. It's sickening.


You know, T Jefferson, I read about Burning Man when it first started up and have to apologize for being so judgemental of those condemning it. I didn't realize it had changed so radically.

I loved the idea of unbridled artistic expression and experimentation, but that idea coupled with the idea of air conditioned winnebagos and generators is such a gag inducer. It would take the edge off the natural spontaneity part, so can definitely see why people recoil on that one.

I also haven't read the story of the guy who got stuck there after he lost his wallet. If noone offered to help him, it pretty much negates the supposed central theme.

Oh...human beings...expressive in every way; artistically, musically, and spiritually, but the spiritual expression ranges across a scale from highly positive to the depths of the shadows, so I guess Burning Man projects hypocrisy, as well as community and "love".

I just miss the sixties. Sorry. :oops:
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Re: Burning Man!!!

Unread postby TommyJefferson » Tue 12 Jun 2007, 14:54:14

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('smallpoxgirl', 'A')re you a Rainbow Tommy?


No. I met some Rainbow People when I delt ecstacy in Austin back in the early 80's before it was illegal. I liked them. They were for the most part bums, but they were honest about it. I respected that.

I attended a Gathering back in the late 80's. It was a hoot, except for the heat and shortage of potable water.

I've kept in touch with them so I can have places to freeload and crash when I'm out wandering. I lobby for another Gathering in Texas, but it's honestly too hot here.

I get really irked when some "hippie" accountant or lawyer who never experienced a single day of hunger or homelessness in their life starts lecturing me on the superiority of state socialism.
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Re: Burning Man!!!

Unread postby TommyJefferson » Tue 12 Jun 2007, 15:12:42

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', '.')..the idea of air conditioned winnebagos and generators is such a gag inducer. It would take the edge off the natural spontaneity part, so can definitely see why people recoil on that one.


Motorcycle rallies are the same way. Before the empty-nest crowd decided to play biker-dress-up in the mid-90's, motorcycle rallies were fun and cheap. $5.00 entry, free camping, do what thou wilt with the caveat that if you become an ass, you'll get some lumps on your noggin.

Now they are just like Burning Man and other "counterculture" events; $60 entry, RV's, generators, colored wrist bands, cops, fences, rules, state regulated. See: http://www.rotrally.com

There are still some real rider rallies out there, but they are small like http://www.bmwclub.org/resources/rally.html Tents, beer, fire, BBQ, beer, more beer.
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Re: Burning Man!!!

Unread postby threadbear » Tue 12 Jun 2007, 18:40:13

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TommyJefferson', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', '.')..

Now they are just like Burning Man and other "counterculture" events; $60 entry, RV's, generators, colored wrist bands, cops, fences, rules, state regulated. See: http://www.rotrally.com

There are still some real rider rallies out there, but they are small like http://www.bmwclub.org/resources/rally.html Tents, beer, fire, BBQ, beer, more beer.


Likely a demographic shift. There just aren't enough people under 30, with little to lose to attend these events AND things like anti-war rallies. It's a tame tame society when the masses are approaching retirement. Yuk.
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Re: Burning Man!!!

Unread postby kochevnik » Tue 12 Jun 2007, 23:13:43

If you grow up poor and later become rich - then lose it all - it's generally not too hard psychologically or physically to adjust to deprivaton again.

OTH if you grow up rich and lose it all - you generally end up killing yourself.

'What doesn't kill us - makes us stronger.'

The Xers who grew up poor and in broken homes (like ILP) are tough cookies and you for the most part you should be grateful that you had it tough as a kid (I know I am) - because it will come in real handy in the future.

And Boomers will come to be the most despised generation in American history. Mark my words.
"People are just bastards - bastard covered bastards with bastard filling."
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Re: Burning Man!!!

Unread postby threadbear » Wed 13 Jun 2007, 00:27:39

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kochevnik', 'I')f you grow up poor and later become rich - then lose it all - it's generally not too hard psychologically or physically to adjust to deprivaton again..

And Boomers will come to be the most despised generation in American history. Mark my words.


I can adjust to deprivation, depending on the definition of the word. I'm interested, what is it particularly that irks you so much about boomers?
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Re: Burning Man!!!

Unread postby Plantagenet » Wed 13 Jun 2007, 01:57:19

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', 'w')hat is it particularly that irks you so much about boomers?


The Boomers used up all the fun. 8)
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Re: Burning Man!!!

Unread postby TWilliam » Wed 13 Jun 2007, 02:42:05

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', 'I')'m interested, what is it particularly that irks you so much about boomers?


You mean aside from their primary role in the possible extinction of our species, maybe even of the biosphere?

Hmmm... where to begin...
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Re: Burning Man!!!

Unread postby Zardoz » Wed 13 Jun 2007, 03:16:03

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', 'T')he Boomers used up all the fun.

Yes, we did. Guilty as charged.

Sorry.
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Re: Burning Man!!!

Unread postby jboogy » Thu 14 Jun 2007, 17:44:35

I heard of this , sounds icky in a touchy-feely kinda way.
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Re: Burning Man!!!

Unread postby threadbear » Fri 15 Jun 2007, 12:57:23

If you want to be irritated with a specific generation for being brainwashed, complacent, self indulgent, no minds, you may want to take it back a generation to the "greatest generation" It wasn't people of my generation who voted Reagan in. Reagan's presidency and the neo-conservatism it gave birth to, kicked off the orgy of stupidity and self interest. The insanity coalesced around a pathetic revival of "americanism" wrapped in consumerism.
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Re: Burning Man!!!

Unread postby smallpoxgirl » Fri 15 Jun 2007, 13:07:37

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', ' ')Reagan's presidency and the neo-conservatism it gave birth to, kicked off the orgy of stupidity and self interest.


Nah. 1900-1970 was the party. The crescendo was Neil Armstrong. Carter gave last call. Reagan gave us the after-hours bar. Now it's 2007. We're still drunk, but it's 10:00 am and the sun is shining brightly. We're going to have one hell of a headache very soon.
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Re: Burning Man!!!

Unread postby threadbear » Fri 15 Jun 2007, 13:18:27

True, SPG, But as the party wound down, the US could have worked off the drunk, along the lines of Europe, more true social democracy and balancing of powers. Instead Americans headed directly to a taquila bar, adopted a Mexican style kleptocracy, with a bouncer hell bent on tossing the middle class straight back onto the street.
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Re: Burning Man!!!

Unread postby TWilliam » Fri 15 Jun 2007, 13:20:46

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', 'I')f you want to be irritated with a specific generation for being brainwashed, complacent, self indulgent, no minds, you may want to take it back a generation to the "greatest generation" It wasn't people of my generation who voted Reagan in. Reagan's presidency and the neo-conservatism it gave birth to, kicked off the orgy of stupidity and self interest. The insanity coalesced around a pathetic revival of "americanism" wrapped in consumerism.


I agree the Warriors started it threadbear. But the issue I have with the Boomers is that they saw it, knew better (they were the hippies after all), but turned their backs on the high road and embraced and refined the selfish crass commercialism of their parents anyway.
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Re: Burning Man!!!

Unread postby threadbear » Fri 15 Jun 2007, 14:07:18

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TWilliam', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', 'I')f you want to be irritated with a specific generation for being brainwashed, complacent, self indulgent, no minds, you may want to take it back a generation to the "greatest generation" It wasn't people of my generation who voted Reagan in. Reagan's presidency and the neo-conservatism it gave birth to, kicked off the orgy of stupidity and self interest. The insanity coalesced around a pathetic revival of "americanism" wrapped in consumerism.


I agree the Warriors started it threadbear. But the issue I have with the Boomers is that they saw it, knew better (they were the hippies after all), but turned their backs on the high road and embraced and refined the selfish crass commercialism of their parents anyway.


There is a great deal to what you're saying. People change when they have kids and take on mortgages. Boomers were also gullible enough to believe the propaganda tailored specifically for idealistic minds; that they could make political and institutional changes from the INSIDE. In fact, institutional inertia changed us.

The VietNamese war ended without an armed domestic uprising; a lost opportunity. Now it's abundantly clear that American style capitalism and out of control consumerism, supported by soft fascism, can't be changed from within.
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Re: Burning Man!!!

Unread postby I_Like_Plants » Fri 15 Jun 2007, 14:11:53

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', '
')
There is a great deal to what you're saying. People change when they have kids and take on mortgages. Boomers were also gullible enough to believe the propaganda tailored specifically for idealistic minds; that they could make political and institutional changes from the INSIDE. In fact, institutional inertia changed us.

The VietNamese war ended without an armed domestic uprising; a lost opportunity. Now it's abundantly clear that American style capitalism and out of control consumerism, supported by soft fascism, can't be changed from within.


Yes, I was saying to someone yesterday that they'll complain about Bush but they'll vote for the guy again if he'll promise to keep his taxes on his house down. Your average American living the Dream (tm) will vote for the Devil himself if they think there's a new riding mower in it for them.
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