[Ebyss]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ebyss', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', '
')Heck, we appropriated $30,000 to remove the weeds from a small pond that happens to be located next to a couple people's houses.

[Tyler_JC]

Max...

Wind power is a net energy winner, by a long shot.

Moreover, the town is just going to buy and install a few windmills to pay for all of the electricity needs of town buildings and sell the extra to the grid.

The town will actually save money in the long run on this deal. The estimate was $14 million over 20 years assuming that electricity prices stay flat (more likely, they will increase dramatically, producing an even higher return on investment).

I thought the membership of this site had already established that wind had a very positive EROEI?

[JPL]

[quote="Pops"]
As far as Plan and Prep goes, I guess we are into the phase of Bike-To-Work-Week.
[quote]

Hi Pops,

Hell, don't tell them that summer is coming. Hay making - long grass, hard work but a little roll in the field with my wife when no-one's looking, home-made cider & cheese for lunch, children running everywhere and getting muddy in ditches, and guffawing, and lots of antics and finally getting it all stacked in the barn and finally rolling into bed far to late and drunk for anyone leading a respectable life...

Don't tell them about that, better not to, they might get all un-doomerish (and then where would we all be???).

JPL

[Chaparral]

^ yeah and whatever you do, don't tell them that vegetable gardening really doesn't have to be hard or backbreaking work.

You can tell them about James Lovelock's scenario tho...

[JPL]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Chaparral', '^') yeah and whatever you do, don't tell them that vegetable gardening really doesn't have to be hard or backbreaking work.

You can tell them about James Lovelock's scenario tho...

[strider3700]

nope lovelock originally was warning. He's now come out and recommended purchasing a hummer or a ferrari and enjoying the time we have left because he now believes we're fucked.

[Chaparral]

^ Agreed. The warning has become prophecy. I really hope it won't get to that but I can no longer rule it out: the mechanisms are there for the 6 deg C rise and they may be advanced beyond all hope for mitigation at this point. Hope is rapidly perishing in the hot sun.

[gg3]

When I read about problems, I get pessimistic. When I read about solutions, I get optimistic. I suspect I'm not alone in this.

In general, engineers are optimists because we spend our lives building solutions and making things work. (I'm about to implement my trademark telecommuter feature for a company that's in the top tier of solar power contractors in the US, including the CEO's home office, and you can be quite sure that he will tell all his friends...)

Reality is, we don't know for sure. Prepare for the worst, hope for the best, pray if you're religious, and meditate even if you're not.

Me & mine intend to be at the southern edge of the habitable zone in the event Lovelock's forecast comes true. So either way, we'll live to tell the tale. I'll be building stuff until the day I drop dead. And I'd sooner die with my tools in my hands than with my hands in the air.

[Pops]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gg3', 'W')hen I read about problems, I get pessimistic. When I read about solutions, I get optimistic. I suspect I'm not alone in this.

[mlit]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gg3', 'W')hen I read about problems, I get pessimistic. When I read about solutions, I get optimistic. I suspect I'm not alone in this.

[Revi]

We have to remember that most people have no idea what's going on. We have known about this stuff for years. Our massive uptick in pessimism happened about 5 years ago. Most people are getting hit with what's going on just now. They are beginning to realize that their lives are on shaky ground. Their personal choices, like the purchase of that SUV and that Mc Mansion are what's getting them into trouble. They thought that they were doing the right thing, what their society told them to do. They felt that they would be rewarded and live happily ever after in a great big expanding energy world. They pictured themselves playing a lot of golf, but instead they'll be using something that looks a lot like a golf club to hill those potatoes. It's a bummer.

I am still bummed about it, but at least we know what's going on.

[PenultimateManStanding]

One of the things I am waiting to watch, Revi, is how the Limbaughs of the world will react to this. The clueless cheerleaders. It's enough to keep you going just out of curiosity.

[Omnitir]

"Why the sudden and massive uptick in pessimism?"

US gas prices.

This site was it's most busy and doomy when US gas soared temporarily. Then as prices dropped the doom and general site activity dropped. Now US gas prices are on the rise again, and again we get a corresponding rise in doom.

So the massive uptick in pessimism is really because most posters are American, and ultimately it's high US gas prices that cause pessimism.

Ultimately, most people don't really care about peak oil. They just care about how expensive it is to fill up the truck.

[jupiters_release]

http://www.theoildrum.com/node/2470

in case anyone missed it...

[Zardoz]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', 'O')ne of the things I am waiting to watch, Revi, is how the Limbaughs of the world will react to this. The clueless cheerleaders. It's enough to keep you going just out of curiosity.

[Omnitir]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TheDude', ''')Bout the only optimist still hanging around seems to be Omnitir who just says that the march of technology will bail us out. Even he thinks tech may just as well sink us in the end.

[Revi]

I think that the agrarian future is here. As it becomes harder and harder to make all of our living from "the system" people like me and my friends will branch out into all sorts of agricultural ventures. Right now half our heat and all our maple syrup come from our land. The garden is providing veggies and the river provides some fish.

We'll spend less time trying to get our substenance from "the man" and spend more time doing it ourselves. It will just happen. There will be all sorts of nonsense going on in the next 20 years, trying to get the oil back, but it ain't gonna happen. Meanwhile we'll farm.

[TWilliam]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Zardoz', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', 'O')ne of the things I am waiting to watch, Revi, is how the Limbaughs of the world will react to this. The clueless cheerleaders. It's enough to keep you going just out of curiosity.

[Madpaddy]

gg3 wrote,

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')nd I'd sooner die with my tools in my hands than with my hands in the air.

[topcat]

The pessimism comes mostly from the higher retail costs of food, fuel, and health care. Mix in the fact that numerous folks are upside down in their home mortgages, others are facing 50% to 100% increases in their ARM payments, and the flippers/builders are buried in inventory.

Others see the 'DOW' going up and up, realizing that a blow-off is in store that will vaporize billions of dollars. And speaking of dollars, way over priced toilet paper.