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America tries to beef up fuel production

A forum for discussion of regional topics including oil depletion but also government, society, and the future.

America tries to beef up fuel production

Unread postby KevO » Sun 20 May 2007, 07:05:49

who here mentioned liposuction?
Desperate times have begun.
It'll now be un-American to be a Vegetarian!



FULL article$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')mericans are often criticised for guzzling too much gas and eating too much fat, but one of the biggest meat producers in the United States is turning the tables, with plans to make fuel for lorries out of left-over lard.

Tyson foods, one of the biggest producers of pork, beef and chicken in America, has teamed up with ConocoPhillips, the oil company, to make diesel fuel out of rendered animal fats.

The plan is the latest move by big business in America to find an alternative to Middle Eastern oil to fuel the country’s massive appetite for petrol and diesel.

Tyson said yesterday that it would send rendered chicken, pork and beef fat from one of its Texas meat-processing plants to be turned into fuel at a ConocoPhillips refinery near by. “This fuel will contribute to America’s energy security and help to address climate change concerns,” the companies said in a joint statement last night.

The lard-based diesel will be made in only one refinery for the time being, but with improvements to other facilities Conoco and Tyson hope to be able to produce about 175 million gallons a year.
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Re: America tries to beef up fuel production

Unread postby mekrob » Sun 20 May 2007, 07:15:52

Of course you could just not eat so much meat, which means you don't have to feed massive amounts of corn to pigs, cattle and chicken nor do you have to spend massive amounts of fuel transporting the food to the animal, animal to the slaughterhouse, and the meat to the store and then your home. Instead, you could just eat less and healthier (greens and such with a reasonable amount of meat). Then, you'd probably save a couple billion gallons of fuel each year, not just .175 bgallons.

But where are the profits? Where's the gluttony?

اين المنتجات؟ اين الشراهة؟
I want to put out the fires of Hell, and burn down the rewards of Paradise. They block the way to God. I do not want to worship from fear of punishment or for the promise of reward, but simply for the love of God. - Rabia
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Re: America tries to beef up fuel production

Unread postby Newsseeker » Sun 20 May 2007, 08:52:42

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mekrob', 'O')f course you could just not eat so much meat, which means you don't have to feed massive amounts of corn to pigs, cattle and chicken nor do you have to spend massive amounts of fuel transporting the food to the animal, animal to the slaughterhouse, and the meat to the store and then your home. Instead, you could just eat less and healthier (greens and such with a reasonable amount of meat). Then, you'd probably save a couple billion gallons of fuel each year, not just .175 bgallons.

But where are the profits? Where's the gluttony?

اين المنتجات؟ اين الشراهة؟


More for ethanol!
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Re: America tries to beef up fuel production

Unread postby mekrob » Sun 20 May 2007, 08:59:30

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'M')ore for ethanol!



My simple point is that you could at least get a lot more with ethanol. If in fact ethanol is an energy loser, then how bad is this? You're going through an extra dozen energy-intensive steps to get the same product.

I'm not endorsing the policy of ethanol, I'm just mocking the complete irrationality of this policy regardless of the effects of ethanol upon the energy market.
I want to put out the fires of Hell, and burn down the rewards of Paradise. They block the way to God. I do not want to worship from fear of punishment or for the promise of reward, but simply for the love of God. - Rabia
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Re: America tries to beef up fuel production

Unread postby Tanada » Sun 20 May 2007, 10:00:37

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('KevO', 'w')ho here mentioned liposuction?
Desperate times have begun.
It'll now be un-American to be a Vegetarian!



FULL article$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')mericans are often criticised for guzzling too much gas and eating too much fat, but one of the biggest meat producers in the United States is turning the tables, with plans to make fuel for lorries out of left-over lard.

Tyson foods, one of the biggest producers of pork, beef and chicken in America, has teamed up with ConocoPhillips, the oil company, to make diesel fuel out of rendered animal fats.

The plan is the latest move by big business in America to find an alternative to Middle Eastern oil to fuel the country’s massive appetite for petrol and diesel.

Tyson said yesterday that it would send rendered chicken, pork and beef fat from one of its Texas meat-processing plants to be turned into fuel at a ConocoPhillips refinery near by. “This fuel will contribute to America’s energy security and help to address climate change concerns,” the companies said in a joint statement last night.

The lard-based diesel will be made in only one refinery for the time being, but with improvements to other facilities Conoco and Tyson hope to be able to produce about 175 million gallons a year.


I brought this up back in January of this year, http://peakoil.com/fortopic24078-0-asc-45.html

which includes the link LINK dated January 3, 2007.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Alfred Tennyson', 'W')e are not now that strength which in old days
Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are;
One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
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Re: America tries to beef up fuel production

Unread postby billp » Sun 20 May 2007, 13:27:18

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Re: America tries to beef up fuel production

Unread postby mekrob » Sun 20 May 2007, 14:33:22

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', 'B')ut mekrob, I don't eat a lot of meat (like most of the people I know) because a little goes a long way, we don't need that much protein, it is bad for the environment, a lot is unhealthy, etc. I think that message has already gotten through to many if not most Americans. Problem is there are just way to many of us. (3rd most populated country in the world).

Anyway Tyson and ConocoPhillips will just be competing with the hippies for the used-fryolater grease.


The "But" seems to indicate that you oppose my view. However, our views are exactly the same. We could get by with so much less meat. With less meat, we have more corn to either not be produced and let the fields not become overburdened or use it for (local) ethanol if possible. We also don't have to transport that food to the animals, then transport the animals to the slaughterhouse, then the meat to the store and finally to your house. (I'm talking about the extra 'corn' [or any equivalent staple food] that is required to raise steer, poultry, and hogs as opposed to just that which humans would eat to get the same nutritional value from the meat)

By replacing meat with vegetables, not only does our health increase, but so does our oil and energy situation and thus pollution, economy, etc.

But again, where are the profits in that?

In fact, I myself am just about to eat my first transition meal of the summer (a transition to a lower meat diet) that consists of rice, vegetables and a Twix. (It's called a transition, not the end result). Too bad there's nothing local besides cotton and tobacco...
I want to put out the fires of Hell, and burn down the rewards of Paradise. They block the way to God. I do not want to worship from fear of punishment or for the promise of reward, but simply for the love of God. - Rabia
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Re: America tries to beef up fuel production

Unread postby mekrob » Sun 20 May 2007, 16:27:05

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'w')e agree but I suggest it's already been done, that people have cut their consumption already. There's little margin to reduce.


I'd absolutely love to know where you got the information that the people of the US or the world have reduced their meat consumption to much lower, more sustainable levels.

Here's a lovely graphic of US meat consumption per capita:
http://www.hsus.org/web-files/PDF/farm/Per-Cap-Cons-Meat-1.pdf

What is the right amount? Let's just say that the 1950 level was a healthy amount, although 150 kg each year (roughly 10 ounces of meat per day) seems like a lot, let's just work with it anyway. If we were to reduce to that amount, we'd lower our meat consumption by nearly one-third. So you're saying that a reduction of 1/3 is just a 'little margin'?

I guess we shouldn't get rid of personal vehicles, because they only make up about 1/3 of oil use in the US, right? (I'm estimating vehicle use out of total gasoline use of 9+ mpd to be roughly 7-8 mpd)

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')It won't make much of a difference to the corn market anyway. Pasture is what American steers eat and they are only finished on corn for several weeks after 6-9 months eating grass. A lot of industrial corn also goes to chicken and pork feed and especially sugars, starches, and industrial products.


That makes no sense. You say it won't matter to the corn market because steers don't usually eat corn, fine. But what about the chicken and pork that you even admit eat much of the corn?
Last edited by mekrob on Sun 20 May 2007, 21:36:16, edited 1 time in total.
I want to put out the fires of Hell, and burn down the rewards of Paradise. They block the way to God. I do not want to worship from fear of punishment or for the promise of reward, but simply for the love of God. - Rabia
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Re: America tries to beef up fuel production

Unread postby Ludi » Sun 20 May 2007, 16:37:58

"Around 80 million acres of land are planted to corn, with the majority of the crop grown in the Heartland region. Most of the crop is used as the main energy ingredient in livestock feed. Corn is also processed into a multitude of food and industrial products including starch, sweeteners, corn oil, beverage and industrial alcohol, and fuel ethanol. The United States is a major player in the world corn trade market, with approximately 20 percent of the corn crop exported to other countries."

http://www.ers.usda.gov/Briefing/Corn/


"According to the National Corn Growers Association, about eighty percent of all corn grown in the U.S. is consumed by domestic and overseas livestock, poultry, and fish production. The crop is fed as ground grain, silage, high-moisture, and high-oil corn. About 12% of the U.S. corn crop ends up in foods that are either consumed directly (e.g. corn chips) or indirectly (e.g. high fructose corn syrup). It also has a wide array of industrial uses including ethanol, a popular oxygenate in cleaner burning auto fuels."


http://www.epa.gov/oecaagct/ag101/cropmajor.html


"Today, about 25 percent of the U.S. corn crop goes into rations for growing and finishing cattle. Forty to 80 percent of the diet of those animals is corn-based."

http://www.csrees.usda.gov/newsroom/lgu ... ws004.html
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Re: America tries to beef up fuel production

Unread postby mekrob » Sun 20 May 2007, 21:45:08

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', 'I') was talking about beef and the notion that beef tallow could go to fuel. The chart says the same thing.


You never really specified that you were only talking about beef. And since I was talking all meats, it's pretty natural to presume that that is the topic about which you were talking. To clarify, this is what you said in your first post:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'B')ut mekrob, I don't eat a lot of meat (like most of the people I know) because a little goes a long way


Meat, not just beef.

Second post, which is a refutation of my post which is about all meats:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'w')e agree but I suggest it's already been done, that people have cut their consumption already. There's little margin to reduce.


Again, no mention of only beef, but an implicit understanding of all meats.

And the cart says exactly what I was saying. That US beef consumption is at an all time high and can easily be dropped to lower, more sustainable levels.

Further, you see from the usda link in the final portion of Ludi's post that 25% of corn used is specifically for cattle. We can get rid of very significant portions of our corn consumption by reducing our total meat consumption or even just our beef consumption.
I want to put out the fires of Hell, and burn down the rewards of Paradise. They block the way to God. I do not want to worship from fear of punishment or for the promise of reward, but simply for the love of God. - Rabia
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