PeakOil is You
More firepower on the street
Re: More firepower on the street
by Laughs_Last » Sat 21 Apr 2007, 22:28:17
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('venky', 'T')hats why I used the term 'developed' countries!
Nobody I ever met has commit so much as even one murder. Therefore, the solution to all violence in the world is for everybody to meet me in person.
I've looked for data covering the 20th Century. The best estimate I can find are that 262 million people were killed by democide, while only 8.5 million have been killed by homicide. That means we are 30 times more likely to be killed by lawful actions of the government than we are to be killed by our criminal neighbors. (These figures don't include people killed in war.)
Anti-gun people seem to think that the police will protect them against criminals, and expect the police to rapidly respond to prevent murders from occurring. Therefore, more police with more training and more equipment means more security. That makes sense, right? However, the data shows that there is no correlation between police spending and homicide rates. At least not in the USA.
source data from http://www-tc.pbs.org/fmc/book/pdf/ch12.pdf?mii=1
- Laughs_Last
- Tar Sands
- Posts: 510
- Joined: Tue 26 Jul 2005, 03:00:00
Re: More firepower on the street
by venky » Sun 22 Apr 2007, 01:28:56
I am not taking the position that gun ownership is evil and that it should be totally abolished. But it just seems to me that when a 23 year old with serious mental health problems, can just go to a shop and buy semi-automatic weapon on the spot!; shows that there is something seriously wrong. And how could he have carried out a massacre without that?
True lawful action by governments has probably killed more people than by homicide. But I think that is irrelevant to the argument here. It more that why other western and developed societies have gun violence that is a minute fraction of that in the US. And its the prevelance of guns that the reason!
I disagree with your assessment that it is guns in the hands of civilians is what that protects democracy and freedom. I think its more like seperation of powers, an independent press, checks and balances, a non-political military and the attitudes of the people.
And yes, its perfectly possible that having a gun in the house might protect your life in the case of a burglary or break in than having to rely on the police. But there is a corresspondingly greater chance that you might be killed in a shoot out with the burglar who is also likely to be armed. In a gunless society, the chance of a petty criminal being armed are pretty low.....thus I would say it roughly balances out.
True lawful action by governments has probably killed more people than by homicide. But I think that is irrelevant to the argument here. It more that why other western and developed societies have gun violence that is a minute fraction of that in the US. And its the prevelance of guns that the reason!
I disagree with your assessment that it is guns in the hands of civilians is what that protects democracy and freedom. I think its more like seperation of powers, an independent press, checks and balances, a non-political military and the attitudes of the people.
And yes, its perfectly possible that having a gun in the house might protect your life in the case of a burglary or break in than having to rely on the police. But there is a corresspondingly greater chance that you might be killed in a shoot out with the burglar who is also likely to be armed. In a gunless society, the chance of a petty criminal being armed are pretty low.....thus I would say it roughly balances out.
I play the cards I'm dealt, though I sometimes bluff.
Only Man is vile.
Only Man is vile.
- venky
- Tar Sands
- Posts: 819
- Joined: Sun 13 Mar 2005, 04:00:00
Re: More firepower on the street
by xarkz » Sun 22 Apr 2007, 02:14:35
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Daculling', '
')If someone in that building was armed the perp would have not been so successful.
')If someone in that building was armed the perp would have not been so successful.
So the students or the teachers should be armed "just in case" ?
how sick is that? And who wants to work and be in such environment?
If this guy hadn't been able to buy his guns legally and so easily,
he wouldnt most likely never had the chance.
-
xarkz - Peat
- Posts: 135
- Joined: Fri 20 Jan 2006, 04:00:00
Re: More firepower on the street
by jato » Sun 22 Apr 2007, 05:38:56
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'S')o the students or the teachers should be armed "just in case" ?
how sick is that? And who wants to work and be in such environment?
how sick is that? And who wants to work and be in such environment?
It is quite sane actually. I want and do work in such an environment.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')f this guy hadn't been able to buy his guns legally and so easily,
he wouldnt most likely never had the chance.
You are right of course. I would also be right to state: If the first potential victim shot Cho dead, then there would not have been a massacre at Virginia Tech. It would have been a small local news event and you would've never heard about it.
Let us dispel some myths. The police do not protect anyone (except perhaps themselves). Once you become aware of this the next question is; who protects me? If you find yourself asking that question, the answer is most likely "nobody".
I work full time as a Deputy Sheriff in patrol. Take a look at some stats. Here is my rural area with a reported population of 22,761 where I live and patrol:
Crime stats, January through June 2005 (6 months):
Homicide: 1
Rape: 5
Robbery: 3
Aggravated assault: 27
Residential burglary: 31
Commercial burglary: 34
Theft over $400: 46
Theft under $400: 50
Vehicle theft: 46
Arson: 5
Last year we had 4 murders.
I did not stop any crimes from occurring during that time period. I did not protect anyone. I only showed up after the crimes occurred. Sure I arrested people for criminal acts. Most of which received a slap on the wrist. Most crimes (90% or more by my estimate) are not solved and/or do not result in successful prosecution.
Do you rely upon the Government to protect you? Do you want to dial 911 in an emergency, only to wait antwhere from 5 to 30 minutes for the first law enforcement officer to arrive?
Do you believe you should have the tools necessary to protect yourself? In your home? At work? In a public place? Do you believe self defense is a “human right”?
Perhaps you are willing to give up your “right” to personal self defense for the good of the collective society?
Just understand there are many people who are not willing to give up the right to "self defense". You will never change our minds.
Last edited by jato on Sun 22 Apr 2007, 05:54:54, edited 1 time in total.
- jato
