[PenultimateManStanding]

The best tree for many miles around was chopped down to put up another apartment building. I used to watch the hawks that perched on it. It was obviously an old tree. Older than me by a long shot. I talked with a couple who were inspecting the new apartments. They sympathized with my concerns and agreed about how long that tree had been there. The guy said 'it's been there all my life'. I asked them about oil depletion and they said, 'yeah, we know'. Now I found fault for SPG wanting to torture the citizens of 1904 for chopping down a big tree. This is a big question, and I don't trust SPG's judgment.

[Ludi]

"O bonny Portmore, I am sorry to see
Such a woeful destruction of your ornament tree
For it stood on your shore for many's the long day
Till the long boats from Antrim came to float it away.


O bonny Portmore, you shine where you stand
And the more I think on you the more I think long
If I had you now as I had once before
All the Lords in Old England would not purchase Portmore.


All the birds in the forest they bitterly weep
Sighing, "Where shall we shelter, where shall we sleep?"
For the Oak and the Ash, they are all cutten down
And the walls of bonny Portmore are all down to the ground.


O bonny Portmore, you shine where you stand
And the more I think on you the more I think long
If I had you now as I had once before
All the Lords of Old England would not purchase Portmore."


Bonny Portmore - Loreena McKennitt

[eastbay]

Quit whining about one tree.

In about 50 years every tree on planet earth above 40 degrees north latitude will have been cut for firewood. And every tree south of that will have been cut to make water boil.

Nothing can stop this process.

Nothing.

[Ludi]

http://www.greenbeltmovement.org/

[blukatzen]

I live in the city (Chicago) and we live in a "neighborhood" even though it is very urban..Chicago is a city of neighborhoods, so there are parts of it that are almost suburban in their feel.
We have several neighbors that have tall evergreens, some pines.
Several years ago, I witnessed a large gorgeous pine being demolished due to the fact that 2 guys were using it as a means to climb up to the second story, where the man's daughters' had their bedrooms. (and I don't know if they were boyfriends using the "classic method", or just burglers) Either way, I could see his point, but the tree was the one that had to pay the penalty. Most folks did not care, but my husband and I went down the block as the tree service was feeding the last of the branches into the chipper, and we took several pieces of stump back to our backyard, as a remembrance of that once-lovely tree that spanned a 3 story building.

On another tale, I was walking down the street last November, to the bus to take the "el" train (our light rail service) downtown, and whilst walking past another neighbor who has a similar tree (still!) at her home, saw a LARGE bird fly over head. It almost seemed like 2 birds, it was so large, but as I looked at it against the sun, I realized I was looking at a hawk! (Hawkman be praised!)

It turned out I was spying a Cooper's Hawk, as they are making a comeback into the city. Another neighbor on the block over has copious bird feeders, which attracts smaller birds, which are prey for the Cooper's Hawk. I distinguished it by the checked feather pattern, reddish and white, very distinctive. It took refuge in that big pine tree..

which made me happy. Go plant another seedling, is my advice. Maybe there is a hawk which will need a tree..down the line...

[Eli]

The neighbor right next to me has (it really is mine as much as it is his) a post oak tree that has to be over 150 years old. The boughs of this oak are bigger than most trees.

Man I love that tree, we have amazingly bad storms around here all the time but that thing as taken them all.

Pen I hear you.

We had this was this place when I was a kid, it never had a name that would show up on a map. But all the kids called it the woods, it was really nothing more than a bunch of scrub trees. Although there were some big trees that I remember. It is funny how you can think back and remember a tree.

Anyway the woods are all gone now, there is nothing left but some drainage ditches and a few more apartments.

I was really saddened when it was gone, I knew that something had been lost that could not be replaced.

[I_Like_Plants]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('eastbay', 'Q')uit whining about one tree.

In about 50 years every tree on planet earth above 40 degrees north latitude will have been cut for firewood. And every tree south of that will have been cut to make water boil.

Nothing can stop this process.

Nothing.

[NEOPO]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('eastbay', 'Q')uit whining about one tree.

In about 50 years every tree on planet earth above 40 degrees north latitude will have been cut for firewood. And every tree south of that will have been cut to make water boil.

Nothing can stop this process.

Nothing.

[blukatzen]

Most people do not value old trees, but even more don't value old timber! Living near Wisconsin, where a lot of logging went on during the 1800's in the Northern part of the State, a lof of old trees were felled. (same in Michigan).

A lot of logs, due to accidents, fell into the waterways and remained there, only to be cleared now, and the value of the timber reclaimed, used for the intent it was first designed for.

For a few years, I had fun going to a large monthly flea market in the outlaying suburbs several counties out, on the cusp of farmland and luxury McMansionville.

Farmers and others come to this, as this is a good place to sell to antique dealers, designers and others, bringing estate sales from farmers in their area of Illinois, Iowa, Indiana, Michigan or Wisconsin to this flea market (which is quite famous in the area).

I was walking down an aisle in the beef house (as this takes place in the County Seat's County fair buildings) I met a farmer from Galena, IL, who makes it a habit to try to take down old barns, (made with old lumber) and make it into furniture or what he can make of it, to recycle this lumber for yet one more life and useage.

I saw a smallish bench he made, rather rustic, who told me that the bench I was looking at was made from the lumber salvaged from a barn that had just been taken down the summer before, his brother and he almost cried taking it down.

He related to me that many people in his area were trying to save that barn, as it was the last old barn, dating from the early 1800's in their area, when they did the research on it, it was determined that that was the oldest barn in Illinois standing that could be documented. So, what that means, is that the wood needed to harvest lumber FOR that barn had to be growing in Illinois probably from the late 1600's to the 1700's.

But, nobody in our State cared to save that barn, or would try to stop the destruction of their heritage, which once demolished, would only live on in pictures. What happened, is the farmer who owned that tract of land, left it to a nephew who was courted by developers, who were already developing houses near Galena.

I looked at the little bench, still with some traces of old "barn red" on it, and with some hand forged iron nails still embedded in it. I bought it, and at least treasure a recycled part of my State's history. That was the last of the benches he had made out of the wood that he salvaged, he made quite a bit of furniture with it.

I would ask you to compare furniture made today with furniture made from yesteryear, even the crappier stuff. Look at the joints, the dovetailing, the stains and finishes, the whole design element.

At least, if a tree is sacrificed, let it be for it's last noble effort, to keep us warm, to provide a myriad of substances which can be made from it's once-bounteous luxury.

Our cultures have forgotten that we once held a "Tree of Life" as our springboard. There are more creatures that depend on trees being around than just us humans. But it seems that the motto has always been.."have buzz saws-will cut".

[frankthetank]

How much wood would need to be burned to replace ALL natual gas for a year, using the current years numbers?

I came up with 85million cords of wood (more because wood stove not as efficient as gas) for this winter. Thats 85 million acres of land needed to SUSTAINably (me thinks not possible) supply the wood for one heating season. Hmmm...thats like all the corn land.

1 Bcf=1 trillion Btu's
1 Cord/wood=20 million Btu's
2006/07 winter=1700 Bcf's

My numbers could be wrong because of all the zeros!

Can you imagine what will happen when gas really starts to deplete? Chicago/MSP/MKE/NYC/DET/??? 20 years? 50 years? 100 years?

[eastbay]

frankthetank,

Yeah, too many zero's for me to crunch this early in the morning... but something's certainly going to be burned to keep homes warm. There definitely aren't enough trees to last year after year after year when the NG and cheap heating oil gets depleted.

Those living in colder sections of the northern latitudes will start chopping away rather than freeze to death.

And those nature preserves people with truly good intentions strive so hard to protect will eventually be ignited too. Look at the Amazon... look at Indonesia... and take a few pictures while you still can.

[holmes]

coal liguidification is going to save the planet. as well as biodrools. Geez you all are so negative! Cmon your thinking in a linear progression. Human capital trumps natural resources. natural resources are DEPENDENT on humans. Not the other way around. sheesh get with reality!
-signed
The Economist

[MD]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('eastbay', 'Q')uit whining about one tree.

In about 50 years every tree on planet earth above 40 degrees north latitude will have been cut for firewood. And every tree south of that will have been cut to make water boil.

Nothing can stop this process.

Nothing.

[grabby]

Very shortly, the sherriff himself will probably be trading wood from there for a few chickens.

[eastbay]

Neighbors of ours are moving soon to a more rural area buying a lot in the foothills of Mt St Helens about 45 miles northeast of Portland. I've seen the pictures and the beautiful land has quite a few evergreen trees covering maybe one of the five acres. The rest have long ago been cleared and about two of the four remaining appear to be lawn grass requiring mowing.

They will use propane for heat since the NG lines don't reach their new place. I asked if they have wood a burning stove or heater and they said it wouldn't be needed because they plan to buy propane.

I refrained from suggesting they plant more evergreen trees because propane may get scarce in the coming years. If I had mentioned the coming scarcity of liquid fuels they would have thought I was delusional, so I kept quiet.

The winters for them will be fairly cold with snow likely and night temperatures getting into the teens. They'll eventually switch to wood burning for heat and those remaining trees on their lot will eventually be cut. After that they will get cold.

I was thinking about what people living in northern latitudes in treeless areas or on smaller treeless lots will do? To avoid freezing to death they will either buy wood for heat (if trees are growing closeby) or move south. And after the trees are finally cut those remaining will have no choice but to move south. In fact, there will undoubtedly be a general movement of people away from colder climates as oil becomes prohibitively costly and firewood is no longer available or affordable. Parks and nature preserves will no longer be off limits from cutting as the national emergency starts to accelerate, much like oil found in parks today will eventually be produced regardless of location or opposition.

I was also thinking that the worlds trees may not last until 2050. The Amazon and Indonesian rainforests were largely intact as recently as 1960. Now both are about a quarter to half gone. During the next few decades there will be far more demand for their wood and to clear that land for cattle and crops. The second half will likely be consumed far quicker than the first half was, much as the second half of the oil age will pass much quicker than the first half. I can't guess the year, of course, but I suspect most of the worlds rainforests will be cut or burned down quite a bit earlier than 2050 and probably in the next 20 years.

I realize these words will anger some, and if so I apologize in advance. It isn't my intention to ignite anger or sadness, but to simply offer a rational comment on the seriousness and scope of the coming disaster. Hopefully a solution will emerge, but it's a very slim hope.

[PenultimateManStanding]

hey eastbay. give them a present. give them some axes. If they're good friends, they'll stash them and chalk it up to a romantic back-to-the-earth sort of gesture.

[eastbay]

I was thinking maybe some seedlings... lol.

They're still in their 40's and in 20 years they may be glad I did... then on the other hand, they'll probably just use a weedeater or mow them down like they'll no doubt do to the natural growth seedlings.

[Chaparral]

Hate to say it but i gotta agree /w/ eastbay. I'd come to the same conclusion a couple of years ago.

WRT willfully ignorant neighbors, well if they freze to death one night, that is their problem. Fvck 'em.