Non-believers: What DO you believe?

by **killJOY** » Sun 01 Apr 2007, 11:57:28

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')b]I know what I believe. I will continue to articulate what I believe and what I believe--I believe what I believe is right.

A bushism.

by **Bas** » Sun 01 Apr 2007, 12:16:41

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'E')veryone knows this fact: in the US, nothing has been done, and it looks like nothing will be done. Since I began studying this seriously in 2003, I have not only not seen anything being done, I have seen bad go to worse go to unbelievable.

by **Heineken** » Sun 01 Apr 2007, 13:30:11

Some of the survey items concern religion; others, Peak Oil; still others, both at the same time. Yes, there's a connection, but overall the survey doesn't make sense because of the hazy overlap between survey items.

by **killJOY** » Sun 01 Apr 2007, 13:53:56

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'Y')es, there's a connection, but overall the survey doesn't make sense because of the hazy overlap between survey items.

by **JasonHam** » Sun 01 Apr 2007, 14:25:11

Its why Peak Oil and Peakers are consider part of the lunatic fringe . Just lump your "civilization coming to an end" talk in there witht the Rapture, Y2K, Nostradamus, and the boogie man. Peakers are convinced that they are right and that they somehow know more than the majority of people and governments. Nothing can save us from the desctruction that is about to occur, just in a few years. And in a few years it will be a few years more, and so on and so on. Just wait !!! Its right around the corner!! The total descrustion of humankind. People wont have any running water, they will be killing each other for a cheeseburger!! Nothing is going to work!! The Alternatives, new sciences, conservation is all a waste of time!! Just go ahead , buy a cabin in the woods, with a stockpile of shit and.....pick your nose.

by **killJOY** » Sun 01 Apr 2007, 14:31:26

Mr Ham, thanks for shoving all those DELICIOUS WORDS AND CONCEPTS into my mouth, I can barely chew..

...give me a minute.

by **Windmills** » Sun 01 Apr 2007, 16:38:05

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JasonHam', 'I')ts why Peak Oil and Peakers are consider part of the lunatic fringe . Just lump your "civilization coming to an end" talk in there witht the Rapture, Y2K, Nostradamus, and the boogie man. Peakers are convinced that they are right and that they somehow know more than the majority of people and governments. Nothing can save us from the desctruction that is about to occur, just in a few years. And in a few years it will be a few years more, and so on and so on. Just wait !!! Its right around the corner!! The total descrustion of humankind. People wont have any running water, they will be killing each other for a cheeseburger!! Nothing is going to work!! The Alternatives, new sciences, conservation is all a waste of time!! Just go ahead , buy a cabin in the woods, with a stockpile of shit and.....pick your nose.

by **americandream** » Sun 01 Apr 2007, 17:00:30

I don't think it takes a great degree of intelligence or reading of the tea leaves to deduce that 6 billion straws slurping out of the earthly pool of oils gonna see the koolaid kinda lose volume....fast.

If there's more of the stuff lurking around in deep wells or abioting at a rate of 1 cup per million years, go do your maths on what state the feckin earths going to be in after these goons have finished sticking her like a pin cushion or, on an optimisitic note, how far we're likely to get on a million yearly cuppa the black stuff.

Go figure and while you're at it, use the KISS method mate!

by **NEOPO** » Sun 01 Apr 2007, 17:26:46

Yes, why cant we simply believe in ourselves.....
I believe in me and I want to believe in us.
We are in agreeance that it doesnt look good and everything from an educated Peaker perspective seems to indicate that all is lost yet as we know not to underestimate our enemies we should also know not to underestimate ourselves and that certainly seems to be the case more often then not.
Nearly two years ago few could imagine the Hirsch report or the GAO report and all the indications that Peak was going mainstream and that hell maybe there was some hope.
I mean really why even try to get the word out unless you like watching flies in jars or rats in cages..... you sadistic f$%^s you!

Jason, calm down as you are stuck in it and wiggling only makes it worse :-D

No one can accurately predict the future yet it is possible to look at our past as well as current M.O. and then somewhat gauge our speed and relative direction.
That is all many are doing as it looks like a brick wall, sounds like a train on a track, feels like we are moving very rapidly and gaining speed and it seems like everyone including the conductor is completely oblivious - how else would you describe it?

Yet again like an echo, All is not lost until it is.
I believe in me so screw your no thing and your some things! :lol:

In my head I have a spot reserved for total fucking chaos and a similarly sized portion for a peaceful transition yet the thought that occupies most of my head space is the grey area in between where lives my own determination to survive regardless of what may come.

Seems like the middle path is the only reality.
Prepare for the worst and hope for the best.
IMHO - If anyone believes and tells others any different they are simply lying not only to others but to themselves as well.

<steps away from the podium grabs the nearest electric guitar and proceeds to dry hump a large amplifier for maximum feedback effect> :-D

by **Ludi** » Sun 01 Apr 2007, 18:05:08

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Windmills', 'A')nother place that novices get tripped up concerns the important distiction between what could be done and what will be done. That point can hardly be overstated. What could we do to mitigate our problems? It's easy to conjure a utopia built on workable ideas. But there is a gulf between what we could do and what we will. Given how short-sighted, lazy, and greedy humans can be, how much faith should we put in humans playing their cards perfectly? We could have ended poverty and hunger and many other social ills. But we haven't. We have the means, but we don't use them. The same lack of will and self-sacrifice plagues the responses to peak oil. We already have alternatives on the market for personal transportation. Are we using them as much as we should? No. Could and will. And don't forget the clock is ticking. It's not that we couldn't build a million of these or those, but rather, will there be the time once your country finally realizes that oil production is in undeniable trouble? We could have dealt with global warming in a rational manner 20 or 30 years ago. Did we? What did we actually do? What are we doing now? We're going to wait. We'll wait until the fire is at our doorstep. The problem is that not every crisis can be solved at the last minute. So it is with global warming. And so it will be with peak oil. Sometimes humans have to plan ahead.

So it isn't that many here have no faith in all the proposals that have been offered. They may just lack faith in people caring to implement them until it's too late. So far, they're dead right.

by **steam_cannon** » Sun 01 Apr 2007, 18:31:15

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('killJOY', 'I')magine an SUV as the proverbial albatross around one's neck (along with one's high-ceiled, no-inside-walled, leveraged to the hilt Mcmansion and subprime mortgage.) (Doesn't mortgage mean "dead-something"?)

by **zoidberg** » Sun 01 Apr 2007, 21:34:32

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JasonHam', 'I')ts why Peak Oil and Peakers are consider part of the lunatic fringe . Just lump your "civilization coming to an end" talk in there witht the Rapture, Y2K, Nostradamus, and the boogie man. Peakers are convinced that they are right and that they somehow know more than the majority of people and governments. Nothing can save us from the desctruction that is about to occur, just in a few years. And in a few years it will be a few years more, and so on and so on. Just wait !!! Its right around the corner!! The total descrustion of humankind. People wont have any running water, they will be killing each other for a cheeseburger!! Nothing is going to work!! The Alternatives, new sciences, conservation is all a waste of time!! Just go ahead , buy a cabin in the woods, with a stockpile of shit and.....pick your nose.

by **Heineken** » Sun 01 Apr 2007, 22:10:09

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('killJOY', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'Y')es, there's a connection, but overall the survey doesn't make sense because of the hazy overlap between survey items.

by **Heineken** » Sun 01 Apr 2007, 22:15:15

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JasonHam', 'I')ts why Peak Oil and Peakers are consider part of the lunatic fringe . Just lump your "civilization coming to an end" talk in there witht the Rapture, Y2K, Nostradamus, and the boogie man. Peakers are convinced that they are right and that they somehow know more than the majority of people and governments. Nothing can save us from the desctruction that is about to occur, just in a few years. And in a few years it will be a few years more, and so on and so on. Just wait !!! Its right around the corner!! The total descrustion of humankind. People wont have any running water, they will be killing each other for a cheeseburger!! Nothing is going to work!! The Alternatives, new sciences, conservation is all a waste of time!! Just go ahead , buy a cabin in the woods, with a stockpile of shit and.....pick your nose.

by **steam_cannon** » Mon 02 Apr 2007, 10:14:29

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Heineken', '
')Now that I can buy.

Silliness is a vital PO skill.

by **aflurry** » Mon 02 Apr 2007, 14:20:35

there's something just as cultish about the implicit belief in man's ingenuity leading us inexorably to intergalactic perfection.

though the bastard neo-biblical revalation shit is just the same thing wrapped up in old testament hoodoo. remember, the blessed are to be lifted from their cars mid lane-change and into space to join jesus on his flying deck chair. how is this really any different from the great plan to build a convoy to mars and set up fusion powered hydroponic algea farms? it's basically just riffs on the same basic tune.

my big takeaway from reading up on peak oil is the new significance it gives to just how short the era of oil and ingenuity has been, and how long before man struggled just to keep just a few tribes intact and alive until breeding age.

And one more thing. How many great and powerful civilizations have come before, and then been so completely destroyed that it's only within the past decade or so that archelogists have even been able to find a trace of them.

the collapse of civilization is the rule, not the exception.

by **JasonHam** » Mon 02 Apr 2007, 18:15:42

What are you running from, JasonHam? What are you so worked-up about? What are you afraid of?

I'm not the one who is running. Wokred up? Ill get worked up when I see my girl tonight. Afraid of? Getting laid off, Cancer, traveling on the beltway(its a deathtrap). Afraid is the wrong word. As Ive grown older I find that I'm not really afraid of anything. There is very little that one person can control. Even when it concerns his own life. You do the best you can.....If the boogie man jumps out from underneath the bed, so be it.

by **Heineken** » Mon 02 Apr 2007, 21:44:38

Then what are you doing here, Jason, swimming valiantly against the doomer current? Not to mention the facts.

Your position on Peak Oil and its consequences will crumble just as surely as the position that denies global warming is crumbling.

Five years ago I had arguments with global warming denialists very similar to you in basic stance. They were guided by faith, wishful thinking, nonscience, and nonsense.

Where are they now?

Slunk off to join the Flat Earth Society, perhaps.

I think you are afraid of the truth, the unpleasant truth, that the party is about to end.

Actually, I take it all back. I've just read some more recent posts of yours, and your position seems to be softening. Good job.