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Depleted uranium slugfest

Discussions related to the physiological and psychological effects of peak oil on our members and future generations.

Unread postby Specop_007 » Sun 15 May 2005, 10:02:17

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Raphael', '[')b]killjoy$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')his has turned into what's called a "pissing contest."

My motto: present the information, let others decide for themselves what to do with it.


What you had before the pissing contest was a kangaroo court, where everybody was marching out their experts to denounce the other experts.

I believe people have proven a connection to DU, the glove fits.

Wisdom not intellect would ask the question ...

Why are people dying at the hands of an occupying force, in a country rich with oil? Stay on the real topic!

Not how are they dying, silly.

The TV generation is so easily distracted, nil attention span.

A culture eager to flash their fake tits and hard earned PhDs.

Namaste


You just asked me some 4 posts back.
"Does it matter how they die?"

Jesus man, you dont even have your OWN morals and beliefs figured out yet, let alone try to preach to someone else.

Course, and it happens alot with asshats like yourself, its PERFECTLY ok for Iraqi's to be brutally murdered under Saddam's rule, but when someone tries to liberate them and cuases civilian casualties its a act of genocide.

I'll never figure people like you out. :x
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Unread postby Specop_007 » Sun 15 May 2005, 10:02:54

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('killJOY', 'T')his has turned into what's called a "pissing contest."

My motto: present the information, let others decide for themselves what to do with it.

Face it Killjoy, I can out piss you.

But having a 6" advantage right from the starting line doesnt hurt any.

:-D
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Unread postby killJOY » Mon 16 May 2005, 07:25:19

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')rmy National Guard Specialist Gerard Matthew is a veteran of the Iraq war. He has an 11-month-old daughter who was born with a deformed right hand. If she tries to stand, and falls, she will not put out here arms to protect herself.

Matthew, himself, suffers constant headaches and blurred vision. He has tested positive for depleted uranium, a component used in tank armor, and weapons shells. Dust from unexploded shells can be inhaled. The symptoms can be devastating.
Just a little more information.

http://www.midhudsonnews.com/News/DU_conf-15May05.htm

Also: $this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('specop', 'B')ut having a 6" advantage right from the starting line doesnt hurt any.


I would be truly impressed...if I could verify your argument. :lol:
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Unread postby killJOY » Sun 22 May 2005, 05:58:56

[Not Copyrighted. Readers can reprint and are free to redistribute - as long as full credit is given to American Free Press - 645 Pennsylvania Avenue SE, Suite 100 Washington, D.C. 20003]

Explaining How Depleted Uranium Is Killing Civilians, Soldiers, Land

Nano-particles pinpointed


By Christopher Bollyn

Depleted uranium weapons, and the untold misery they wreak on mankind, are taboo subjects in the mainstream media. This exclusive report should break the media embargo imposed on the American people.

Despite being a grossly under-reported subject in the mainstream, there is intense public interest in depleted uranium (DU) and the damage it inflicts on humankind and the environment.

While American Free Press is actively investigating DU weapons and how they contribute to Gulf War Syndrome, the corporate-controlled press ignores the illegal use of DU and its long-lasting effects on the health of veterans and the public.

In August 2004 American Free Press published a ground-breaking four-part series on DU weapons and the long-term health risks they pose to soldiers and civilians alike. Information provided to AFP by experts and scientists, some of it published for the first time in this paper, has increased public awareness of how exposure to small particles of DU can severely affect human health.

Leuren Moret, a Berkeley-based geo-scientist with expertise in atmospheric dust, corresponds with AFP on DU issues. Recently Moret provided a copy of her letters to a British radiation biologist, Dr. Chris Busby, about how nanometer size particles—less than one-tenth of a micron and smaller—of DU once inhaled or absorbed into the body, can cause long-term damage to one’s health.

Busby is one of the founders of Green Audit, a British organization that monitors companies “whose activities might threaten the environment and health of citizens.”

Moret’s writings were meant to assist Busby in a legal case being heard in the High Court in London where a former defense worker, Richard David, 49, is suing Normal Air Garrett, Ltd., an aircraft parts company now owned by Honeywell Aerospace, claiming exposure to DU on the job has made his life a “living hell.”

David worked as a component fitter on fighter planes and bombers but had to quit due to health problems. He says he developed a cough within weeks of starting work.

Today, David suffers from a variety of symptoms like those known as Gulf War Syndrome, including respiratory and kidney problems, bowel conditions and painful joints. Medical tests reveal mutations to his DNA and damage to his chromosomes, which, he says, could only have been caused by ionizing radiation. He has also been diagnosed with a terminal lung condition.

Honeywell denies DU was ever used at the plant in Yeovil, Somerset, where David worked for 10 years until 1995. David claims that DU’s existence at the plant was denied because it is an official secret.

David has asked the High Court for more time to gather evidence. The hearing is due to resume in April. “I don’t have any legal representation,” David said, “so I am representing myself. It is a real David versus Goliath case.

“I am confident I will win. I hope to set a precedent for other cases of people who have suffered from the effects of depleted uranium,” he said.

Moret’s letters on the particle effect of DU is based on research done by Marion Fulk, a nuclear physical chemist and former scientist with the Manhattan Project and the National Laboratory at Livermore, Calif. Fulk, who has developed a “particle theory” about how DU nano-particles affect human DNA, donates his time and expertise to help bring information about DU to the public.

Asked about Fulk’s particle theory, Busby said it is “quite sound.”

“DU is much more dangerous than they say,” Busby added. “I’ve always said that it contributes significantly to Gulf War Syndrome.”

When Moret’s correspondence to Dr. Busby was posted on the Internet over the New Year’s holiday under the title “How Depleted Uranium Weapons Are Killing Our Troops,” some 6,000 people read the letter in the first two days. The following Monday, a producer from BBC’s Panorama program contacted Moret to arrange an interview.

If the BBC follows up with an investigation on the health effects of DU, it may be hard for the U.S. media to maintain their cover-up. More than 500,000 “Gulf War Era” vets currently receive disability compensation, many of them for a variety of symptoms generally referred to as Gulf War Syndrome. Experts blame DU for many of these symptoms.

“The numbers are overwhelming, but the potential horrors only get worse,” Robert C. Koehler of the Chicago-based Tribune Media Services wrote in an article about DU weapons entitled “Silent Genocide.”

“DU dust does more than wreak havoc on the immune systems of those who breathe it or touch it; the substance also alters one’s genetic code,” Koehler wrote. “The Pentagon’s response to such charges is denial, denial, denial. And the American media is its moral co-conspirator.”

U.S. GOVERNMENT KNOWS

The U.S. government has known for at least 20 years that DU weapons produce clouds of poison gas on impact. These clouds of aerosolized DU are laden with billions of toxic sub-micron sized particles. A 1984 Department of Energy conference on nuclear airborne waste reported that tests of DU anti-tank missiles showed that at least 31 percent of the mass of a DU penetrator is converted to nano-particles on impact. In larger bombs the percentage of aerosolized DU increases to nearly 100 percent, Fulk told AFP.

DU is harmful in three ways, according to Fulk: “Chemical toxicity, radiological toxicity and particle toxicity.”

Particles in the nano-meter (one billionth of a meter) range are a “new breed of cat,” Moret wrote. Because the size of the nano-particles allows them to pass freely throughout the organism and into the nucleus of its cells, exposure to nano-particles causes different symptoms than exposure to larger particles of the same substance.

Internalized DU particles, Fulk said, act as “a non-specific catalyst” in both “nuclear and non-nuclear” ways. This means that the uranium particle can affect human DNA and RNA because of both its chemical and radiological properties. This is why internalized DU particles cause “many, many diseases,” Fulk said.

Asked if this is how DU causes severe birth defects, Fulk said, “Yes.”

MILITARY AWARE

The military is aware of DU’s harmful effects on the human genetic code. A 2001 study of DU’s effect on DNA done by Dr. Alexandra C. Miller for the Armed Forces Radiobiology Research Institute in Bethesda, Md., indicates that DU’s chemical instability causes 1 million times more genetic damage than would be expected from its radiation effect alone, Moret wrote.

Dr. Miller requested that questions be sent in writing and copied to a military spokesman. She did tell AFP that it should be noted that her studies showing that DU is “neoplastically transforming and genotoxic” are based on in vitro cellular research.

Studies have shown that inhaled nano-particles are far more toxic than micro-sized particles of the same basic chemical composition. British toxicopathologist Vyvyan Howard has reported that the increased toxicity of the nano-particle is due to its size.

For example, when mice were exposed to virus-size particles of Teflon (0.13 microns) in a University of Rochester study, there were no ill effects. But when mice were exposed to nano-particles of Teflon for 15 minutes, nearly all the mice died within 4 hours.

“Exposure pathways for depleted uranium can be through the skin, by inhalation, and ingestion,” Moret wrote. “Nano-particles have high mobility and can easily enter the body. Inhalation of nano-particles of depleted uranium is the most hazardous exposure, because the particles pass through the lung-blood barrier directly into the blood.

“When inhaled through the nose, nano-particles can cross the olfactory bulb directly into the brain through the blood brain barrier, where they migrate all through the brain,” she wrote. “Many Gulf era soldiers exposed to depleted uranium have been diagnosed with brain tumors, brain damage and impaired thought processes. Uranium can interfere with the mitochondria, which provide energy for the nerve processes, and transmittal of the nerve signal across synapses in the brain.

“Damage to the mitochondria, which provide all energy to the cells and nerves, can cause chronic fatigue syndrome, Lou Gehrig’s disease, Parkinson’s disease and Hodgkin’s disease.”
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Unread postby OilsNotWell » Tue 31 May 2005, 02:03:35

I posted an important update on US legislation just proposed on this parallel DU thread:

http://www.peakoil.com/fortopic4628-75.html
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Unread postby killJOY » Mon 25 Jul 2005, 20:08:56

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')b]In 1996 and 1997 the United Nations Human Rights Tribunals condemned Depleted Uranium weapons for illegally breaking the Geneva Convention and classed them as"weapons of mass destruction." But the U.S. and British governments have repeatedly denied that the radioactive dust
from DU is harmful and blocked research into the effects.


http://www.uruknet.info/?p=m14022&l=i&size=1&hd=0
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Unread postby Liamj » Mon 25 Jul 2005, 20:53:55

Which of course makes Bush, Blair, Howard, & Berlusconi WAR CRIMINALS.

Nobody is going to put them on trial right now, but if enough ppl keep speaking this truth it'll lodge in the public mind. Then when the going gets tough and the populace gets angry, they'll have this entirely legitimate sword with which to dismember the criminal cartels that currently govern.

I'm not generally a fan of capital punishment (too many lazy cops & half witted lawyers), but for high treason and genocide i think its warranted. My only uncertainty is, should death be by depleted uranium poisoning? (i'm visualising Howard sucking on a length of hose, hoovering Iraq clean. Limited practical value, but sure give other puppets pause for thought).
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It is Crazy to Call Depleted Uranium Safe.

Unread postby directinfo » Fri 23 Feb 2007, 09:51:44

Killing messanger is done either out of fear or greed. To hide or to coverup. Here is an example of what happens when people seem to know the truth and yet they try to cover it up with threats.

Diabetes and Depleted Uranium - Italian Embassy Cover up Continues
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'M')ishra reported "Threats at the hospital, three weird phone calls claiming 'we have you under surveillance,' one each in American, Italian and Indian accents."
Dr. Mishra said he was advised by someone in the [Indian] government to "leave town for three days because of the danger." Mishra said he did and "unidentified Government agents blocked my computer, blocked my phone and email and harassed my family."

Dr. Mishra said it started on his visit to the Consul at the Italian Consulate on June 29th regarding his earlier request for an Italian Visa. A Visa is an entry and travel permit and can only be issued in Bombay by Italian Consul Baeceloni. Mishra was called back without an explanation.

The Consul asked Dr. Mishra 1) Who is your sponsor in Italy, 2) What is your hotel in Italy and 3) what is your interest in Leuren Moret, in diabetes and depleted uranium? Dr. Mishra had said nothing about diabetes, depleted uranium or Leuren Moret.

Depleted uranium is a genocidal radioactive metal used for bullets, bombs and missiles by the United States and Great Britain as munitions in Iraq, Afghanistan and the former Yugoslavia. Millions of pounds of weaponized radioactive uranium gas and dust have been dispersed by US/UK military forces in Iraq and Central Asia.

The use of uranium weapons has caused a global diabetes epidemic since 1991, according to scientist Leuren Moret. It is enough uranium dust to cause an estimated twenty five million additional cancers in Iraq in the next decade. The US and UK military still use uranium munitions. There are only 24 million Iraqis. Many Iraqis now have multiple cancers.

On his visit to to the Consul at the Italian Embassy Dr Mishra answered the three questions by stating he would bring the email invitation to the Consul, his reservation and stated "I am going to meet with a scientific colleague, Leuren Moret, an old family friend who works for the good of humanity, about matters of interest to international public health."

Mishra continued his statement "I am a scientist and a medical doctor. I have an interest in diabetes and public health links to depleted uranium. There are big unexplained increases in diabetes in India, China and Jakarta since 1990. I am participating in a meeting about these issues."

The US, Italian and Indian governments had no way of knowing about the planned international meeting about the diabetes and depleted uranium cause and effect link.


This article was all over the place last year. The crux of the story matches other multiple stories coming out of the Veterans Administration and hospitals and laboratories in the US and abroad, that obvious and logical and clearly connected DU health risks and illnesses and deaths are being covered up from high places.

And now check this out...

The Queen's Death Star - Depleted Uranium

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he documentary film BLOWIN' IN THE WIND, has an interview with a family with two normal teenage daughters, living near the bombing range where depleted uranium weaponry is now being used. The parents showed photos of their baby born recently with severe birth defects. The baby looked like Iraqi deformed babies, and like many of the Iraqi babies, died 5 days after birth.
...

The "smog of war" from Gulf War I was found in glaciers and ice sheets globally a year later. Even more alarming is the non-specific catalytic or enzyme effect from internal exposures to nanoparticles of depleted uranium. Soldiers on depleted uranium battlefields have reported that, after noticing a metallic taste in their mouths, within 24-48 hours of exposure they became sick with Gulf War syndrome symptoms.


Wwo would want to cover this up? Anyone sense a profit motive?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he Rothschilds control uranium supplies and prices globally, and one serves as the Queen's business manager. Filmmaker David Bradbury made BLOWIN' IN THE WIND to expose depleted uranium bombing and gunnery range activities contaminating pristine areas of eastern Australia, and to expose plans to extract over $36 billion in uranium from mines in the interior over the next 6 years. Halliburton has finished construction of a 1000 mile railway from the mining area to a port on the north coast of Australia to transport the ore. The Queen's favorite American buccaneers, Cheney, Halliburton, and the Bush family, are tied to her through uranium mining and the shared use of illegal depleted uranium munitions in the Middle East, Central Asia and Kosovo/Bosnia. The major roles that such diverse individuals and groups as the Carlyle Group, George Herbert Walker Bush, former Carlyle CEO Frank Carlucci, the University of California managed nuclear weapons labs at Los Alamos and Livermore, and US and international pension fund investments have played in proliferating depleted uranium weapons is not well known or in most instances even recognized, inside or outside the country.

God Save The Queen from the guilt of her complicity in turning Planet Earth into a 'Death Star'.

If Rosthschild, the Queen, Bush, the Carlysl Group and Halliburton are all involved in controlling the price of Uranium, something tells me that big money with killing muscle has a plan.
What is the plan? Is it being carried out now? Is it merely to make a killing in the uranium market or is it ito make a killing in other ways too?

Coverup is an indicator of guilt. Are we all being subject to DU in our air just because it serves short-term interests of a small group of genocidal psychopaths?
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Re: It is Crazy to Call DU Safe.

Unread postby Heineken » Fri 23 Feb 2007, 10:41:08

Probably the greatest hypocrisy on Earth belongs to the US leaders who constantly harp about our "brave troops" and all the great things they deserve and then quietly kill them with DU, Agent Orange, etc., and also fight them at every turn as they try to get access to post-service medical care and other benefits.

Bush, for example, has been a steady slasher of VA benefits.

{topic moved from Planning forum by Shannymara}
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Re: It is Crazy to Call DU Safe.

Unread postby nemo » Fri 23 Feb 2007, 16:00:59

Given the controversy I think the use of DU munitions is irresponsible. While tungsten alloy penetrators are more expensive to manufacture, their performance is good enough to clobber people into submission quite effectively. American forces don't need DU too keep their edge in kill power, can afford to foot the ammunition bill and can definitely use an increase in international good will. Tungsten penetrators would seem the prudent choice, if one deems this kind of penetration is truly necessary in the first place.
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Re: It is Crazy to Call DU Safe.

Unread postby I_Like_Plants » Fri 23 Feb 2007, 16:53:17

They used to use tungsten.

The use of DU is indeed criminal. It's poisonous enough as a heavy metal, but its radioactive properties make it much worse. It's part of the "poisoned earth" policy USrael is following, who cares if the Outgroup gradually dies out from mutations? Israel in particular is worried about the growth of Outgroup populations in the Middle East because they know that even with a kill rate of 10 of them for every Israeli/American, and even with bulldozing houses full of kids and bombing schools, they are not winning.

And there used to be outrage about stuff like this, way back when, everyone's seen that famous photo of the little girl in Vietnam who was hit with white phosphorous or napalm. But nothing like that is coming out of this war - at least not yet, maybe there's hope.
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Re: It is Crazy to Call DU Safe.

Unread postby nemo » Fri 23 Feb 2007, 18:11:17

I don't think Israel uses DU munitions, at least not the way the US does. I served as tank crew, and we had Israeli APFSDS rounds, purportedly purchased for being the best 120 mm non-DU penetrator around. I'm fairly certain that the Abrams tanks are loaded with DU sabot going into combat - same Rheinmetall gun, different toxicological risk assessment, I suppose.
We also had a cheaper steel sabot round for training, and I assume other armies have something similar.
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Re: It is Crazy to Call DU Safe.

Unread postby I_Like_Plants » Fri 23 Feb 2007, 18:18:15

The Israeli and US munitions are roughly equal, heck they get almost all of their stuff from us! :lol:

As for small arms munitions, in case not everyone knows this, the military M-16 round, the SS109, has a DU core. Think of all the spraying and praying with '16's over there.
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Re: It is Crazy to Call DU Safe.

Unread postby nemo » Fri 23 Feb 2007, 19:12:18

DU 5.56? I think I gotta call bullshit on this one... Did some googling, and couldn't find any credible sources for this - just crazy conspiratorial stuff. I'd be glad to see a link proving me wrong though.
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Re: It is Crazy to Call DU Safe.

Unread postby Tanada » Fri 23 Feb 2007, 20:30:59

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('I_Like_Plants', 'T')he Israeli and US munitions are roughly equal, heck they get almost all of their stuff from us! :lol:

As for small arms munitions, in case not everyone knows this, the military M-16 round, the SS109, has a DU core. Think of all the spraying and praying with '16's over there.


That would be just plain counter sensical given that you would need a bigger powder charge and a consequently heavier recoil mechanism to constantly be using DU ammunition in a carbine or rifle.

Also the radiological aspect of DU causing cancer is grossly overstated, the danger from DU powder comes from the dust being inhaled and causing heavy metal poisening, very similer to Arsenic or Lead poisening as a matter of biological effects. The half life of DU is so long that it has a very low radiological impact AND it emits alpha particles which are stopped by the skin or regular clothing. Only if it is inhaled, injested or injected is it really dangerous.
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Re: It is Crazy to Call DU Safe.

Unread postby I_Like_Plants » Fri 23 Feb 2007, 20:46:42

I put in a fair amount of time trying to confirm or deny my assertion that DU's in .556 ammo too, and can't find anything to prove it - I did find stuff about steel cores, and lots of interesting stuff on tungsten and DU, tungsten's better, it just costs more and doesn't have that handy earth-poisoning effect.

So, I'll have to retract that statement until I can find something confirming DU in .556 ammunition.

However, the US and Israel are using DU, both nations are essentially run by the same bunch, and using essentially the same methods and materiel.
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Re: It is Crazy to Call DU Safe.

Unread postby Rob_0126 » Mon 26 Feb 2007, 23:03:47

Debating aside;

I have read many sources on this issue of DU. I think it's a type of genocide and it ticks me off. I mean, it's one thing to go in and wipe out a country. It's another to poison the land for generations to come and kill off the population of the country.

This stuff effects our soldiers for heavens sake!

Im all for going in and cleaning house, but this is genocide to me.

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Re: It is Crazy to Call DU Safe.

Unread postby Heineken » Mon 26 Feb 2007, 23:12:18

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Rob_0126', '
')Im all for going in and cleaning house, but this is genocide to me.

Robert


Whose house? Nobody can tell the "good guys" from the "bad guys." Who gets to decide? That cold-blooded, bungling maniac Bush?

To even begin to "clean house" in Iraq, we must first sweep out ourselves.
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