[Bas]

Thought it would be intersting to find the ratio between doomers powerdowners on this forum.

Let's say that a:

Doomer = somebody who believes in the almost total collapse of societies, countries with massive die-offs around the world, resource wars the size of a World War, with nukes. Basically armageddon.

PowerDowner = Somebody who thinks that we will face prolonged econonomic depression, some resource wars but contained, some die-off but mainly in third world countries. Societies and countries will remain mostly intact, biofuels and sustainable energy will play a role in a new economic equilibrium.

Cornucopian = Does not believe in the end of abundant oil/thinks technology will save the day.

[davep]

I'm choosing the Doomer / Powerdowner combo, but I guess both will occur to a greater or lesser extent depending on geography.

I don't think that you need to believe that nukes will be let loose to be considered a doomer. This depends more on who has access to the nukes, and is not a direct result of PO.

[Bas]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('davep', 'I')'m choosing the Doomer / Powerdowner combo, but I guess both will occur to a greater or lesser extent depending on geography.

[NeoPeasant]

Thanks for making the distinction between doomer and power-downer. To a cornucopian, any future other than one permitting a life of high consumption and universal automobility is doom, and anyone predicting such a future is a doomer.

[Bas]

interesting results so far, I thought the people here were more doomer than that...maybe they just shout more

[undertaker]

I'm making a speech next weekend advocating powerdown. Not sure the reception I'll et, or more importantly, if people will actually act on what I say. I will lay out what they can do, and I have discovered and cultivated a lot of local resources (mostly farmers and farm related industries that are approachable).

If I don't get good results, count me in as a strict doomer.

[Bas]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('undertaker', '
')If I don't get good results, count me in as a strict doomer.

[turmoil]

Just drive less, and eat less meat...it's not that hard for people to do and when prices get high, people will do that anyway.

So much energy is wasted and I have no doubt that when people become aware of this, we will all be powerdowners by 2020, if not sooner.

What's the difference between a powerdowner and an environmentalist? Historical baggage?

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Bas', ' ')
PowerDowner = Somebody who thinks that we will face prolonged econonomic depression, some resource wars but contained, some die-off but mainly in third world countries. Societies and countries will remain mostly intact, biofuels and sustainable energy will play a role in a new economic equilibrium.

[Tanada]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Bas', ' ')
PowerDowner = Somebody who thinks that we will face prolonged econonomic depression, some resource wars but contained, some die-off but mainly in third world countries. Societies and countries will remain mostly intact, biofuels and sustainable energy will play a role in a new economic equilibrium.

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tanada', ' ')Hmm, Monty, his version is a lot closer to what I mean when I say powerdowner than your is. Perhaps you can do a seperate poll with your defenitions? Might be instructive.

[EnergySpin]

There are a few other distinctions that have to be made ...
For example how would you classify Amory Lovins Bas?
He clearly believes that the amount of energy we use has to come down, but the services we get from energy do not have to.
I for example believe that the amount of services enjoyed, can in fact increase to a great extent by technological innovations/evolution/adoption of existing stuff in a grand scale but do see the reduction in energy consumption per capita as inevitable (and even desirable considering GCC).
I guess I have tovote for something between a cornocupian and a powerdowner

[Bas]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Bas', ' ')
PowerDowner = Somebody who thinks that we will face prolonged econonomic depression, some resource wars but contained, some die-off but mainly in third world countries. Societies and countries will remain mostly intact, biofuels and sustainable energy will play a role in a new economic equilibrium.

[Grifter]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Bas', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Bas', ' ')
PowerDowner = Somebody who thinks that we will face prolonged econonomic depression, some resource wars but contained, some die-off but mainly in third world countries. Societies and countries will remain mostly intact, biofuels and sustainable energy will play a role in a new economic equilibrium.

[Omnitir]

None of us neatly slot into a single category of peaknic, or even somewhere between two different categories.

Does powerdowner necessarily mean believing in a dieoff, or is that more doomer? Does believing in possible mitigation of disruptions through powerdown mean purely powerdowner, or does any belief in a relatively smooth transition make one a cornicopian? Does believing in a continuing role of technology in our future necessarily mean cornicopian, or is that part powerdowner?

These definitions that we use are useless. We are all a little bit of everything, it’s just a question of how much percentage of each.


I’ve been told that I’m a cornucopian simply because I believe that future technologies will be of huge importance in shaping the future. I believe in a high-tech future. But I also think we are headed for some difficult times which we will only be able to get through with powerdown ideals. So I guess I’m also somewhere in between powerdownder and cornucopian. Yet most doomers would easily consider me a cornucopian. Likewise, I would consider some people’s ideas of a powerdown to be far more doomer then powerdown. But then I also think that in the long run, advanced technology is our only hope, which makes me part doomer.

[johnmarkos]

Like Omnitir said, only more so.

I believe that reality is complex.

Nonetheless, I'm ~75% optimistic. This is likely a genetic predisposition.

[gg3]

Doomer who acts like a powerdowner.

That is, I think the shit is going to hit the fan hard, but I'm doing everything I can to contribute to mitigating the impact. Seems to me that's the most realistic approach.

[Wednesday]

In between Doomer and Powerdowner.

[kmann]

I voted cornucopian because I've been accused of it. Besides, I always vote for the underdog. The description given best fits my views. I'm not saying we'll be pumping crude forever, just that we'll get more and more utility out of it until it's no longer needed. Upheaval from shortages? Probably no more than now or in the past.
Ask me on another day and I'll likely give a different answer.

[Bas]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kmann', 'I') voted cornucopian because I've been accused of it. Besides, I always vote for the underdog. The description given best fits my views. I'm not saying we'll be pumping crude forever, just that we'll get more and more utility out of it until it's no longer needed. Upheaval from shortages? Probably no more than now or in the past.
Ask me on another day and I'll likely give a different answer.