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Some Thoughts about killing..

Discussions related to the physiological and psychological effects of peak oil on our members and future generations.

Re: Some Thoughts about killing..

Unread postby threadbear » Mon 22 Jan 2007, 20:43:47

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', '
')When six billion people are sitting at the same dinner table, background music, is important. And more than that...polite conversation. The crucial thing is using the right fork. Who would be so coarse as to suggest that too many people are being invited to dinner? Dear me, it's all soooo apppaaaalling.
oh, such dripping sarcasm. :shock: so you want all the bitches ordered to report for mandatory spaying? and don't forget, it's all the ten year old girls he's advocating to be forced to have their ovaries cut out, ethically of course. (unless they're really smart or can pass some "worthiness test")


Oh Penultimate,
I remember posting several articles detailing Negroponte's role in setting up death squads in Latin America in the eighties, early nineties. Your response? I should look at the big picture and understand that these things were done in the interest of the greater good, to keep communism at bay in these countries.

So how, dear Man, can one accept this gruesome 'ends justify the means', philosophy, in this case, and at the same time, get their panties in a bunch over the idea of regimented sterilization to prevent mass starvation? You don't make sense to me.

I think one child per couple is desirable, myself, and that could be implemented simply by creating a social atmosphere where people would feel humiliated if they had more. I consider women who crank out child after child, irresponsible brood sows. It's not a feminist issue, it's a human rights one.
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Re: Some Thoughts about killing..

Unread postby PenultimateManStanding » Mon 22 Jan 2007, 21:10:42

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', '
')I think one child per couple is desirable, myself, and that could be implemented simply by creating a social atmosphere where people would feel humiliated if they had more. I consider women who crank out child after child, irresponsible brood sows. It's not a feminist issue, it's a human rights one.
you've got a strange sense of human rights if you advocate that ten year old girls must have their ovaries removed unless they can pass some state test of the worthiness to breed. Of course, I can see that maybe you don't really advocate that. But that's what gg3 was saying, while claiming it to be the ethical thing to do. I was making my case against that and you came in dumping this sneering sarcasm. Also, "cranking out child after child" and "brood sows" is nasty rhetoric. Is it giving birth when a woman has one baby, but piggish if she has two, or, heaven forbid, she desires a family of four children? Maybe you will say, "see, you're talking about the proper way to hold a fork again." Call me a prig if you want, but a family with 4 children is not irresponsible if the children are all loved and provided for.

Perhaps this will help you to see where I'm coming from: I hear people railing against "fascist" governments, while accepting totalitarian proposals of forced sterilization for whoever doesn't "make the grade". It is obvious that what that would mean is the forced sterilization of whoever doesn't have connections with the ruling elite.
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Re: Some Thoughts about killing..

Unread postby threadbear » Mon 22 Jan 2007, 21:35:01

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', '
')I think one child per couple is desirable, myself, and that could be implemented simply by creating a social atmosphere where people would feel humiliated if they had more. I consider women who crank out child after child, irresponsible brood sows. It's not a feminist issue, it's a human rights one.
you've got a strange sense of human rights if you advocate that ten year old girls must have their ovaries removed unless they can pass some state test of the worthiness to breed. Of course, I can see that maybe you don't really advocate that. But that's what gg3 was saying, while claiming it to be the ethical thing to do. I was making my case against that and you came in dumping this sneering sarcasm. Also, "cranking out child after child" and "brood sows" is nasty rhetoric. Is it giving birth when a woman has one baby, but piggish if she has two, or, heaven forbid, she desires a family of four children? Maybe you will say, "see, you're talking about the proper way to hold a fork again." Call me a prig if you want, but a family with 4 children is not irresponsible if the children are all loved and provided for.

Perhaps this will help you to see where I'm coming from: I hear people railing against "fascist" governments, while accepting totalitarian proposals of forced sterilization for whoever doesn't "make the grade". It is obvious that what that would mean is the forced sterilization of whoever doesn't have connections with the ruling elite.


Actually, Penultimate, I'm calling you out in supporting the brutally fascist latino regimes, on the one hand, as a buttress against Communism and then having a hissy fit over the prospect of enforced sterilization. How dare you, of all people, get all sentimental and warm about human rights? My comments do drip with sarcasm, but you have blood on your hands. No, wait. You have blood on one hand, and a basketful of goodies for new moms and babies in the other. Grosse.
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Re: Some Thoughts about killing..

Unread postby skyemoor » Mon 22 Jan 2007, 21:51:29

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', '[')Call me a prig if you want, but a family with 4 children is not irresponsible if the children are all loved and provided for.


At some point, people may think they can have 4 children and care for them, but when PO hits, providing for them will vanish like an opium dream. That's when love will be wrenched into despondency.
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Re: Some Thoughts about killing..

Unread postby PenultimateManStanding » Mon 22 Jan 2007, 21:59:27

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', '
')Actually, Penultimate, I'm calling you out in supporting the brutally fascist latino regimes, on the one hand, as a buttress against Communism and then having a hissy fit over the prospect of enforced sterilization. How dare you, of all people, get all sentimental and warm about human rights? My comments do drip with sarcasm, but you have blood on your hands. No, wait. You have blood on one hand, and a basketful of goodies for new moms and babies in the other. Grosse.
how dare you have a hissy fit over some nasty political situation that doesn't matter any more while supporting brutal fascist oppression of basic human rights in your own town, in your own neighborhood, for your own nieces and nephews if you have any. you've got the ovaries and testicles of your own family oozing blood from your hands. very gross!

(now go back and look at how this issue started with gg3. I proposed that there might be some common ground, some way to find agreement. it is possible to do without all the hysterics)
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Re: Some Thoughts about killing..

Unread postby threadbear » Mon 22 Jan 2007, 22:01:46

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', '
')Actually, Penultimate, I'm calling you out in supporting the brutally fascist latino regimes, on the one hand, as a buttress against Communism and then having a hissy fit over the prospect of enforced sterilization. How dare you, of all people, get all sentimental and warm about human rights? My comments do drip with sarcasm, but you have blood on your hands. No, wait. You have blood on one hand, and a basketful of goodies for new moms and babies in the other. Grosse.
how dare you have a hissy fit over some nasty political situation that doesn't matter any more while supporting brutal fascist oppression of basic human rights in your own town, in your own neighborhood, for your own nieces and nephews if you have any. you've got the ovaries and testicles of your own family oozing blood from your hands. very gross!

(now go back and look at how this issue started with gg3. I proposed that there might be some common ground, some way to find agreement. it is possible to do without all the hysterics)


Who is hysterical? You've gone positively shreiking girly, not me.
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Re: Some Thoughts about killing..

Unread postby PenultimateManStanding » Mon 22 Jan 2007, 22:09:34

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('skyemoor', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', '[')Call me a prig if you want, but a family with 4 children is not irresponsible if the children are all loved and provided for.


At some point, people may think they can have 4 children and care for them, but when PO hits, providing for them will vanish like an opium dream. That's when love will be wrenched into despondency.
agreed, this was an issue I wanted to get into. if we are accepting a priori the doomer position that civilization is definately going to collapse then only people in certain situations should want to have many kids. Young hands around to share in the labor may be very valuable. But there are many who are aware of PO and don't necessarily accept the doomer position. This can be debated to great lengths. This thread, however, is about thoughts on killing and now, as a result of some of gg3s ideas in conjunction to the debate on killing it has been extended, for now at least and for as long as anyone is interested to pursue it, to the issue of forced sterilization. (the use of the word spaying is just an incidental matter, not central to this at all). The issue of forced sterilization is an issue which I have given my views on already. I am waiting to see if gg3 has any further elaboration on it, or if you do, I'd be glad to give it some thought and chip in what I think.
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Re: Some Thoughts about killing..

Unread postby PenultimateManStanding » Mon 22 Jan 2007, 22:19:58

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', '
')Actually, Penultimate, I'm calling you out in supporting the brutally fascist latino regimes, on the one hand, as a buttress against Communism and then having a hissy fit over the prospect of enforced sterilization. How dare you, of all people, get all sentimental and warm about human rights? My comments do drip with sarcasm, but you have blood on your hands. No, wait. You have blood on one hand, and a basketful of goodies for new moms and babies in the other. Grosse.
how dare you have a hissy fit over some nasty political situation that doesn't matter any more while supporting brutal fascist oppression of basic human rights in your own town, in your own neighborhood, for your own nieces and nephews if you have any. you've got the ovaries and testicles of your own family oozing blood from your hands. very gross!

(now go back and look at how this issue started with gg3. I proposed that there might be some common ground, some way to find agreement. it is possible to do without all the hysterics)


Who is hysterical? You've gone positively shreiking girly, not me.
the whole "blood on your hands" thing is what I was referring to. If you look at that post which you call "shrieking girly" it was simply mirroring what you just said to me. This isn't doing any good. I don't see any value or interest in this approach. If you want to talk again about an issue we disagreed on a long time ago, that's one thing. The subject here is forced sterilization. I've made my argument against it. So far, what you've said is that you don't approve of women having more than one baby and that some kind of social stigma might be effective to prevent more births per woman than that. Do you agree with gg3 that 10 year old children should be sterilized unless they can pass some kind of test that puts them in the top quartile of some valuable skill?
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Re: Some Thoughts about killing..

Unread postby threadbear » Mon 22 Jan 2007, 22:51:02

Actually PMS, I have no working memory but a long term memory like an elephant, and I was waiting for just such an inconsistency in your philosophy to reveal itself, before I struck.

GG3's methods? I described my preferance-create a society where having more than one child is considered a disgrace.

Here's another idea. People who appear as guests on the Jerry Springer show, do so for the free trip to wherever the show is made and a couple of nights in the Hyatt Regency. There's also the thrill of seeing themselves on tv, I guess.

You've framed forced sterilization as a kind of gothic horror show. It wouldn't even have to be forced. Perhaps each of those sterilized, should be given $1000.00 and 15 minutes of fame on some hill-billy hazing show, like Springer's, and a couple of nights in a beautiful hospital, set up for the precedure. They'd feel like queen for a day. This way you'd be using someone's character defects and lack of impulse control to benefit the greater society.
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Re: Some Thoughts about killing..

Unread postby PenultimateManStanding » Mon 22 Jan 2007, 22:58:07

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', 'A')ctually PMS, I have no working memory but a long term memory like an elephant, and I was waiting for just such an inconsistency in your philosophy to reveal itself, before I struck.
ah ha! so that's what it was.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')You've framed forced sterilization as a kind of gothic horror show.
That's what I was trying to do. I want the idea to be vivid because I have a hard time believing that gg3 really thinks that way.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')t wouldn't even have to be forced. Perhaps each of those sterilized, should be given $1000.00 and 15 minutes of fame on some hill-billy hazing show, like Springer's, and a couple of nights in a beautiful hospital, set up for the precedure. They'd feel like queen for a day. This way you'd be using someone's character defects and lack of impulse control to benefit the greater society.
now your thinking like a 21st Century Commissar.
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Re: Some Thoughts about killing..

Unread postby AWPrime » Tue 23 Jan 2007, 07:04:08

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AWPrime', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gg3', '
')Overpopulation threatens life, erodes liberty, and usurps the pursuit of happiness. The so-called freedom to breed is the biggest threat to all other freedoms. And as long as we're constrained to one habitable planet, this is a zero-sum game. As with the swinging of fists and the limit of noses, one man's right to swing his testicles stops where another's food supply begins.

Too bad we don't have language awards, you I would nominate.
sure, he writes in a colorful way: but animals are spayed, not humans. you can't speak of "ethics" and then advocate human females should be "spayed".

Ethics are still ethics even when they involve other species.
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