[caver456]

Hi all - our peak oil group is trying to keep Starbucks from opening 2 new branches in our otherwise small town. They opened one here recently and like clockwork, within a few months the adjacent locally based coffee shop closed its doors. Anyways, we've got 2 calls for help on this topic:

1) I'd like to find some more concrete wording for our reasoning for trying to keep Starbucks out. Generally of course it's the need to support locally based business now, since chain shops have the power to crush locally based competition, and then later on when transportation costs rise and the chain shops close their doors first (because transportation costs affect them more than locally based shops especially if they buy local), this leaves economic devestation behind (the closed starbucks plus the long-since-closed local competition). Etc, etc, etc. But, if we could find a more succinct statement about all this, or some concrete examples and precedents, that would help a lot.

2) what are some strategies that have been used to keep chain shops away in the past? I've done a fair bit of local research and so far it seems to be:
a) get an anti-chain-shop ordinance passed by local government
b) try to get the land owner of the proposed new location to agree with the above arguments
c) get a petition going (we've already got 700+ names - but, who do we send it to?? Who do we lobby to?? Local press, local gov't, Starbucks corporate, the landlord, all of the above, ???)

Any other suggestions? Any details on how to execute these plance and strategies?

Thanks! Any help will be greatly appreciated!!

-Tom Grundy
Alliance for a Post Petroleum Local Economy of Nevada County, CA
http://www.apple-nc.org

[gego]

Fascists, not d***head.

But I suggest you quit trying to control other peoples property and lives.

Don't you think there is a reason that the local shop can't compete. Perhaps it is because people want what Starbucks offers more than they want what the local shop offers.

I think you are at the wrong site, and definitely in the wrong index. Maybe you are even in the wrong country. Maybe try Cuba.

[NEOPO]

why are you both flaming this clearly misguided peak oil person?
You know that most peakers are attracted to peak oil because they think it will bring down our great nation and what better way to start the fall then to dictate what coffee shops can operate in their area.

If the people want a walmarts on every corner and no little ma and pop rip em off stores then thats just the people getting smarter and starting to realize that economic freedom is probably the most important foundation block of this great god given nation.

Actually I kinda like the walmarts with its red white and blue colors - very patriotic in such trying times.
Starbucks is good also, good people and good coffee plus it has a very groovy star and goddess symbol.
Yeah gego these people must be lost er something man.
I am sure they will rant about equality and fairness etc etc but tough real patriotic americans like us are not falling for that crap!

[smallpoxgirl]

I'm not sure anybody has ever been very successful at getting rid of Starbucks. Mostly it comes down to harassing them to try and vent your anger at their destruction of your neighborhood. Reverend Billy and the Church of Stop Shopping link are probably the most creative such campaign. Can always make some good fliers to post in the area:

[NEOPO]

We should be free to go into starbucks, get our coffee and come back to our mercedes/bmw/hummer without having a flier on our windshield!

Plus who knows what filthy scummy unwashed tree huggin hands placed the flier!

Might as well print up some fliers that say "save the trees"

[smallpoxgirl]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('NEOPO', 'M')ight as well print up some fliers that say "save the trees"

[NEOPO]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('smallpoxgirl', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('NEOPO', 'M')ight as well print up some fliers that say "save the trees"

[gego]

I live in a very rural area dotted with small towns. The biggest town has 8,000 population, but most are in the 2,000 population category. There are cafes in most of these towns, maybe a Sonic hamburger joint, maybe a Chinese or Mexican restaurant, and one or two of them have a McDonalds. In a few of the towns are Wal-Mart supercenters.

Most of these places you can get coffee, but ordinary coffee, and in the cafes you may have to put up with other people smoking. There is little likelyhood of Starbucks opening around here, not that anyone would care, except someone who would compete with them. Starbucks only opens where they think they would be successful. When a new restaurant or cafe is started by someone, nobody here would consider trying to use the force of government or any other intimidation to keep them from going into business. Have you ever heard of freedom?

Since there seem to be a limited number of jobs around here, I suppose that by the logic of keeping the competition out, then we need to get laws passed to prevent any newcomers from moving in and applying for any of the already scarce jobs. Maybe if you are the wrong nationality we should get a law to prevent you from buying or renting a house or farm, because some of us might not like certain nationalities, and we were here first; you might not fit in with our view of what is good and bad.

Oh! I just noticed that this thread originated in CA. Now I understand. I sure hope you people stay there as we would not want you to violate your principles and do business with anyone other than locals.

[neocone]

Funny how people pick on starbucks whereas it's one of the few companies that offers decent healthcare to its (mostly young) employees.

I certainly am not for the big evil corporations raping the pristine mom and pop landscape, but if some corporation has success, it is based on DEMAND for its products.

Action and reaction... creativity and imagination can always defeat formulas.

And if you want to know I get a coffee at a coffee shop 5% of the time now... the rest I make my homemade latte with a top quality Saeco machine I got at Costco in 2003 for $198, and REAL IRISH cream in it (and premium coffee I grind myself on the fly in a non made in China SAECO grinder!).

I drink 2-3 coffees a day, so after 1000 of them, I can say I proudly pay about 50 cents a pop... a 90% savings!

[NEOPO]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gego', 'I') live in a very rural area dotted with small towns. The biggest town has 8,000 population, but most are in the 2,000 population category. There are cafes in most of these towns, maybe a Sonic hamburger joint, maybe a Chinese or Mexican restaurant, and one or two of them have a McDonalds. In a few of the towns are Wal-Mart supercenters.

Most of these places you can get coffee, but ordinary coffee, and in the cafes you may have to put up with other people smoking. There is little likelyhood of Starbucks opening around here, not that anyone would care, except someone who would compete with them. Starbucks only opens where they think they would be successful. When a new restaurant or cafe is started by someone, nobody here would consider trying to use the force of government or any other intimidation to keep them from going into business. Have you ever heard of freedom?

Since there seem to be a limited number of jobs around here, I suppose that by the logic of keeping the competition out, then we need to get laws passed to prevent any newcomers from moving in and applying for any of the already scarce jobs. Maybe if you are the wrong nationality we should get a law to prevent you from buying or renting a house or farm, because some of us might not like certain nationalities, and we were here first; you might not fit in with our view of what is good and bad.

Oh! I just noticed that this thread originated in CA. Now I understand. I sure hope you people stay there as we would not want you to violate your principles and do business with anyone other than locals.

[dinopello]

Uh, don't patronize their shop. Small cafe's compete very nicely with Starbucks here. Starbucks does not generally offer a discount over small coffee shops, so they aren't stealing business by that means. Some local shops offer better coffee and pastries than Starbucks, some don't (often a matter of personal preference) some offer a more interesting atmosphere than Starbucks, some don't (often a matter of how good the business person is).

The one advantage Starbucks has that I can see is that they can secure better locations due to their credit history. If anything, work on that - put in place programs that help small independents compete with securing financing so that they are not unfairly disadvantaged due to not fitting into the banker's (often myopic) view of which businesses are good loan risks.

By the way, there are still independent coffee growers, importers and roasters. One I've started drinking is Hondo Coffee. Small batch roaster from a single farm in Honduras, lives and roasts locally and sells coffee and beans at the farmer's markets. Coming soon to a coffee house near me

[smallpoxgirl]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gego', 'W')hen a new restaurant or cafe is started by someone, nobody here would consider trying to use the force of government or any other intimidation to keep them from going into business. Have you ever heard of freedom?

[DarkDawg]

To the OP: You might start here

[frankthetank]

We don't even have a starbucks here.

[WildRose]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('smallpoxgirl', 'T')he question is of whose freedom is pre-eminent. Should local people have the right to control the flavor of communities and their local commerce or should distant corporations have a right to impose their procrustean ideas of commerce, craft the whole world in their image, and convert it into a giant conveyer of cash going into a perpetually shrinking collection of pockets. Living in a world where everywhere looks like everywhere else and all the commerce is controlled by a few dozen CEO's thousands of miles away who suck up all the profits does not strike me as being freedom.

[dinopello]

There is a big difference to keeping out "big box" retailers and a specific store like Starbucks.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'B')ig-Box" is descriptive of the physical characteristics of the building. A big box store is a large, free-standing, rectangular, generally single-floor store built on a concrete slab. The flat roof and ceiling trusses are generally made of steel, the walls are concrete block clad in metal or masonry siding. The interior can be either relatively luxurious, or starkly utilitarian, depending on the market niche of the firm and how it wishes to communicate that market position to its customers.

[smallpoxgirl]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('WildRose', 'I')t's my feeling that these larger chains will go the way of the dinosaur as people have less money in their pockets, anyway. Small business owners have a way of connecting with the people in their community and assessing their needs. When $4/cup specialty coffees at Starbuck's are a luxury very few can afford, the small cafe offering coffee and a muffin for half that amount will have a better chance at succeeding.

[dinopello]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('smallpoxgirl', 'T')he problem is that Starbucks has a large amount of capital and local businesses don't. Starbucks can afford to sell it's product at a loss, force local businesses into bankruptcy, and then jack up the prices.

[uNkNowN ElEmEnt]

The small town (under 10,000) I live in has totally managed to keep a lot of chain stores out. Starbucks made it in here by putting a little outlet in an already existing store (safeway groceries). I know the owner of one of the coffee chains here in town and the next time I see her I will ask her about it.

I do believe the petition should go to your local government. Find out about land zoning proceedures etc. Local shops add so much character that we've managed to improve our tourism and local economy by remaining an authentic town not filled with chains like everyone else. If I can find out who here was responsible for this I will PM you their info so you can talk to them directly.

Its a tough thing to keep these monsters out but they destroy the local economy. look on the web for info about how Wal-mart (or china-mart as we call it here) has ruined the US. That will give you one hell of a lot of arguements. If you make enough of a stink you can demand an open forum before they approve any chain store so that the residents can decide for themselves. Good luck!!!

[IanC]

Although I agree with you in principle, I'd spend my time on other efforts. I live on a really hip street here in Portland. There is an independent coffee house -no kidding- every 3 blocks. They are all packed (mostly with laptop toting young adults blogging their angst about Peak Oil!). So are the Starbuckses. A few neighborhoods tried to keep them out, but to no avail. The truth is that many independent businesses actually LIKE having Starbucks nearby. It is a known brand with a loyal following. It creates loads of foot traffic. Even other cafes benefit by having Starbucks nearby.

Keep the faith, brother, but go after Wal-Mart. As other posters have mentioned, at least SB has health insurance and tuition assistance.

-Ian
Coffeeland