[smallpoxgirl]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gego', 'W')hat I do know is that this attitude that the left is morally superior to the right is offensive. Both wings live in a moral cesspool.

[NEOPO]

IMHumbleO - The playing field has never (rarely if ever) been level thus there has never been a "free" market.
Long before 1913 when the "great lie" was perpetuated upon the american public the central banks were very active in maintaining an unequal distribution of wealth.
These forces were so powerful they could make or break an economy/country and even the most libertarian politicians knew it and usually played along.

A free market does not exist when powerful central players exist.
The money masters.

As far as right or left politics goes I really really have a hard time seeing the difference these days.
If you ask me the current democratic majority is dominated and littered throughout with Neocon elites.
One body two arms grabbing our freedoms slowly but surely.

As far as who wants a big government welfare state......
The rich have taken more handouts in the form of tax breaks, business incentives et al then the poor yet who "needs" it?
The oil and energy companies are still suckling to the tune of billions of dollars a year.
Who REALLY wants a welfare state?
Who wants people totally dependent?
Yeah......

Bottom line - the purpose of the federal government was to ensure the rights of the free states.
When something does not serve its purpose it is........

[gego]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('smallpoxgirl', 'I')'m not sure if this was directed towards me.

[smallpoxgirl]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gego', 'I')f I have income or wealth sufficient to provide me with what I want, plus have some left over, what am I supposed to do with the excess, consume some more?

[nwildmand]

what i didnt even get a nomination? im pretty right wing compared to most on this board.

but jack would win it hands down.

[Lokutus]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gego', '
')You think it is ok to take my wealth for your collective purpose and fail to see the immorality in that. I oppose taxes. Were government organized for mutual self defense, and were it supported by voluntary contributions, then it would be moral. When it is organized to manage peoples' lives, take from one to give to another, grant privilege, force contributions to fund itself, then it is immoral and those who support it, demanding it function thusly are immoral also; this is the left and right.

As a libertarian I am neither left or right because I do not endorse or support any function of government other than mutual self defense paid for voluntarily.

So I do see you as immoral, and myself not. Additionally I see threads like this as hypocritical because they condemn using words like "hard core" and "extremest" to negatively reflect of one group while the ones doing the condemning are no better.

[gego]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('smallpoxgirl', 'D')espite your twisted Gordon Gekko style logic, greed is not good. Generosity is good. Greed is depraved.

[Lokutus]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gego', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('smallpoxgirl', 'D')espite your twisted Gordon Gekko style logic, greed is not good. Generosity is good. Greed is depraved.

[Lokutus]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gego', ' ')
If you are so anti capital, refuse to use anything that came into your hands as a result capital. You would not have even clothes to wear were it not for the capital goods used in their production, nor would you be able to drive without the capital invested in drilling and producing the gasoline, or the car in which it used by you.

[gego]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Lokutus', '
')Let me guess, you're about 22 yearts old.

[venky]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A') zero sum game assumes there is a limited amount of wealth to be distributed. In fact wealth is created/extracted by certain activities, and there are many instances of people achieving a large amount of wealth while also improving the lives of others, simply by making more new wealth available to himself and others.

[emersonbiggins]

I like this thread. I was perusing a libertarian website, trying to find the viewpoint on the legitimacy of property rights vis-a-vis the homestead system, Louisiana Purchase, and all that other boring stuff. Basically, the libertarian viewpoint is that is one's labor is mixed with 'unowned' (does that condition exist?) property, then it becomes theirs, much as if a tool is made out of a rock, it then becomes the property of the maker. I suppose I don't have a problem with this, other than the fact that it is a belief system found to be completely incompatible with those of the original Indian tribes, and enforceable only by law & a standing army.

Just rambling here... continuing on...

[Lokutus]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gego', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Lokutus', '
')Let me guess, you're about 22 yearts old.

[emersonbiggins]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gego', '
')If the government had not taken over the business of providing roads, then I could use toll roads and pay for what I get.

[smallpoxgirl]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('emersonbiggins', 'B')asically, the libertarian viewpoint is that is one's labor is mixed with 'unowned' (does that condition exist?) property, then it becomes theirs, much as if a tool is made out of a rock, it then becomes the property of the maker.

[gego]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('venky', '
')...it would also follow that the opportunities for people to enrich themselves and move up in life by innovation and profiting from new econmic schemes and ideas will also be extremely limited. I also believe (though I cant prove) that an unrestricted free market in these circumstances of a declining economy, which you seem to espouse will lead to even more concentration of wealth and power, that remains in certain hands over time, leaving the bulk of the masses with little chance of improving their life.

[emersonbiggins]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('smallpoxgirl', 'N')ow a days we have the opposite situation. The aristocratic class is born with huge accumulations of capital such that they can loaf off their whole lives. As time goes by, the owners of capital are able to leveridge it such that wealth accumulates in a smaller and smaller number of hands every year. Much of that accumulation happens as the result of outright crime.

[cynicalheretic]

Specop hasn't created a thread on here since October of last year. and his last post on here seems to have been Jan 04. He use to be here all day long and never seemed to leave. Maybe he finally got a girlfriend or maybe he just found a life. Either way he is probably better off.

[Lokutus]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('emersonbiggins', '
')If (and I mean 'if') a libertarian or sympathetic third party were ever to rise to power, their first order of business should be to divest these interests of their ill-gotten and bequeathed property.