[PolestaR]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Lighthouse', 'F')unny though considering Aussis can't vote in the United States ...

[mattduke]

I have observed negative values reported for the gold ticker on CNBC for days in which gold was up significantly.

[NEOPO]

DUDE I am considering the existence of the illuminati - aliens - flying saucers and the like - dont worry you have alot farther to go before crazy;-)

[joewp]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mattduke', 'I') have observed negative values reported for the gold ticker on CNBC for days in which gold was up significantly.

[NEOPO]

yeah ...thats it;-)

[Zardoz]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('joewp', 'A')h, I'm probably paranoid.

[FoxV]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Nepolean', 'D')o Not attribute to Malace what can be better ascribed to incompetence

[Daculling]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('NEOPO', 'D')UDE I am considering the existence of the illuminati - aliens - flying saucers and the like - dont worry you have alot farther to go before crazy;-)

[KhanCEO]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('NEOPO', 'D')UDE I am considering the existence of the illuminati - aliens - flying saucers and the like - dont worry you have alot farther to go before crazy;-)

[shakespear1]

Here is an intersting analysis of the DEM/REP voters in the Bush-Kerry election and how they see various issues.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_code('', 'George Bush’s re-election has been explained as a red-state-versus-blue-state “values” gap. But research shows a majority of Bush voters were misinformed about White House policies on the environment, Iraq, and terrorism. Instead of news, they got propaganda disseminated by the right-wing machine, corporate broadcasters, and journalists who think balance is reporting one side. In a new epilogue to his recent book, Crimes Against Nature, Robert F. Kennedy Jr. shows how, almost two decades after Reagan’s FCC eliminated the Fairness Doctrine, the media have hidden the real gap—between America’s values and those of its government.')

Article

[NEOPO]

you forgot to mention that Kerry is a skull and bones member

[KhanCEO]

Why do you care so much about puppets? A new one is in office every four or eight years.

[RonMN]

But Kerry "had a plan...had a plan...had a plan"

Seriously, Kerry ran on 1 platform..."ANYBODY BUT BUSH" and the fool almost won! What does that say about our voting awareness?

[shakespear1]

Gideon

Well to me the article DOES give a glimpse into the mindset of the DEM and REP supporters and how distorted it is by the media. The article does NOT say that the media is LIBERAL. Just the contrary, so I would suggest reading the whole thing calmly before your biases fire up.

To say it is garbage having only read half of the article is a bit rich. Find it hard to understand how someone can make a decision without examining half the information. I would want you to be my adviser or to work on a project involving millions $$.

Are you saying that the survey results are not to be believed? Do you see fault in suggestion that the media bias has created this mindset? Or is it that the media has not effect on the election results?

I do not have you clearvoyance as to how Kerry would have acted vs. Bush. However the chances were strong that perhaps he would.

How about Gore vs. Bush? Would Gore have entered Iraq? Chance again are that he would been surrounded by a different group of advisers and perhaps would not have done it.

I used to be a big viewer of McNeil-Lehrer Report on PBS as well as the other networks. Since being out of the US as of '97 I have seen a vivid change in PBS reporting and what I though was a good news source, CNN.

For me CNN is sugar candy and FOX News does not rate as being anything but a cartoon show. I came to these conclusions by comparing on the ground and what was reported about the particular places I worked in. The reading world press on a daily basis gave me a view into how somethings a amplified, diminished or completely ignored. Thus a more vivid picture of how one sided US mainstream media began to develop. This is where most people in the US get their info. From the Main Stream.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_code('', 'Furthermore, Fox’s rating success has exerted irresistible gravities that have pulled its competitors’ programming to starboard. In the days leading up to the Iraq war, MSNBC fired one of television’s last liberal voices, Phil Donahue, who hosted its highest-rated show; an internal memo revealed that Donahue presented “a difficult public face for NBC in a time of war.” CBS’s post-election decision to retire Dan Rather, a lightning rod for right-wing wrath, coincided with Tom Brokaw’s retirement from NBC. He was replaced by Brian Williams, who has said, “I think Rush [Limbaugh] has actually yet to get the credit he is due.” According to NBC president Jeff Zucker, “No one understands this NASCAR nation more than Brian.”')

You call the above attack on Bush??? You must be kidding. It sounds to me like an effort to shed some light on what is going on in the media world and how it bears on election results.

The article is about the fact that hard facts which go counter to the corporate views or profits do not make it. Only mush is delivered.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_code('', 'When veteran television journalist and former CBS news analyst Bill Moyers resigned as host of PBS’s Now in December, he observed, “I think my peers in commercial television are talented and devoted journalists, but they’ve chosen to work in a corporate mainstream that trims their talent to fit the corporate nature of American life. And you do not get rewarded for telling the hard truths about America in a profit-seeking environment.” Moyers called the decline in American journalism “the biggest story of our time.” He added, “We have an ideological press that’s interested in the election of Republicans, and a mainstream press that’s interested in the bottom line. Therefore, we don’t have a vigilant, independent press whose interest is the American people.”')

The key to the article is that word frequently used but which does not apply in the current media world of NYT , Wadhington Post, CNN, FOX etc. That word is INDEPENDENT.

The lack of independence press was a problem in the past but today in the US I think it has hit its zenith.

[coyote]

Bush lied, the press covered it as straight news, the people gobbled it up and in general believe what they want to believe. That's about it, right?

I think most people in the developed world are pretty shocked Bush was reelected. I know I was. But I don't think it's necessarily anything quite so sinister as what the article implies. I think voters are generally just pretty fucking stupid. If you voted for Bush because you just can't stand Kerry that much, well that's one thing. But the people who actually believe a word of the drivel that comes out of that clown's mouth, well, there are some real cognitive issues there.

[coyote]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Gideon', 'B')ut I don't buy the "press covered it as straight news", and I particularly don't buy that the "press" are more in Bush's corner than in Kerry's corner.

I do buy that the "press" abides by a clear code of conduct that has been written by the corporations that fund the press.

...But I do buy that the press - from Fox to NYT - are kept in business only because they don't rock the boat with real news.

[shakespear1]

Gid

$this->bbcode_second_pass_code('', 'Surveys results are meaningless without knowing the exact method used to derive the results. But I'm not questioning them. I think Bush won because Kerry was an ass, not because the media made him look like an ass, or because the media made the Chimp look human. Or because they framed the issues a certain way, or so on. ')

Well we are dealing with these issues all the time here in PEAKOIL.

When the IEA , SPE or others gives you some results AND the data used that you can think that you have the whole enchilada and can safely eat it. You think you got the $this->bbcode_second_pass_code('', 'method used to derive the results ') .

Sorry Bud and everyone in this forum, YOU DON'T.

I see the data in the field and what happens to it there. I am one of the magicians of the lower order who creates the DATA, as best as I can. Then I see IT filtered through the company and perhaps in the the press releases.

And guess what, You are getting exactly the same as what was quoted in the posted article. You have half a sandwich without all the meat. To get a good sandwich you would need to come down to my shop and unfortunately you can't unless your in the brotherhood.

Watching all the discussion on the Forum reminds me that that is exactly how it looks. Depending what group you are in WILL depend on how you see the issue because we are operating with different information access.

Remember those changing SHELL Reserves Bud !!!!!!

As to Kerry vs. Bush. This point I was trying to make was not Kerry is an ass or not. Bush is the good guy or joint smoker. The point was the US voters are manipulated and it is as simple as that. Just like the SHELL stock owners were and perhaps still are

[shakespear1]

Perhaps this has more value to understand today's mindset

$this->bbcode_second_pass_code('', ' "The Century of the Self" a four hour film series by Adam Curtis, you'll get a quick lesson about how sophisticated the mass brainwashing of the American people has been and how long it's been going on.')

The work of Bernays in the US will be enlightening to anyone willing to take the time to find out what he was doing.

[Aaron]

Anecdotal evidence is generally speaking a poor measure of reality, since it involves extrapolating from individual pieces of evidence.

That said, here's my anecdotal observation.

Peakoil.com seems to be the target of an increased corporate troll presence.

As part of our normal procedures we "look the other way" & tolerate a certain level of this kind of posting. It's impossible to eliminate anyway, & often has the opposite effect than was intended by the troller.

But lately, we have been seeing a rash of these disinformation posts & so it hit my radar.

Now I can't share with you specifically how I know who's trolling & who's just misinformed... or where these messages originate. But I can tell you that some of these folks use some pretty elaborate techniques to prevent techs like me from tracing them.

Newsflash... I'm better at this than you are...
(Anon proxy all you like... not how I'm finding you anyway. MAC Spoofers should beware though)

Anyway, I just thought it was interesting & wanted to share my observations with the community.

It's kinda funny, in a deadly serious sort of way, & is the biggest compliment I can think of to bestow on the Peak Oil movement.

I promise not to do any tech evil against your trolling butts... but I'm just a guy & don't speak for the entire community.

Lota pissed-off folks out there ya know?

What really amazes me is that these people don't seem to realize that the Peak Oil message puts the energy industry at the front of the line & all but guarantees massive profits for these companies... for a while anyway.

Troll on morons... troll on.

[MacG]

Funny, I have not noticed any increase in trolling. Guess I skip them already on the subject stage. When you mention it, I have noted an increase in the noise-to-signal ratio judged from the subject lines.