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Gullibilty

Discussions related to the physiological and psychological effects of peak oil on our members and future generations.

Re: Gullibilty

Unread postby rogerhb » Sat 16 Dec 2006, 07:49:05

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JPL', 'I')f I lived in a stone-age tribe, and I had a recurring dream about the water-hole drying up, I would go and talk to the shaman. He would then check his dreams, cast the bones or whatever, and if he deduced the gods were trying to tell us something, we'd be off straightaway and look for a new water hole.


Else he'll say you're paranoid, then he'll explain that he is the one with the monopoly on important dreams then smack you on the head with his special shaman-knobkerry for being so rude, it will also happen to be his unique cure for bad dreams.
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers." - Henry Louis Mencken
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Re: Gullibilty

Unread postby PenultimateManStanding » Sat 16 Dec 2006, 12:27:43

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JPL', '
')Anyhow, I'll get it off my chest. In my travels about the biosphere I keep (accidentally) meeting to people who have had the same dream. It's about a tidal wave sweeping over the land.

There. Anyone else had this one???
*raises hand* yep, me too. Freud even wrote about that one: the dream is about the original trauma: birth, says the man with the cigar and grim face.
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Re: Gullibilty

Unread postby Zardoz » Sat 16 Dec 2006, 12:52:23

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rogerhb', 'B')ut they are most certainly not predictions of the future, else I would have been wearing lead boots and chased through forests by strange monsters many times by now...

...and I would have returned to school, and found myself sitting in class many, many times wearing nothing but my skivvies, utterly unaware that there was a final exam that day.
"Thank you for attending the oil age. We're going to scrape what we can out of these tar pits in Alberta and then shut down the machines and turn out the lights. Goodnight." - seldom_seen
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Re: Gullibilty

Unread postby Ludi » Sat 16 Dec 2006, 13:18:13

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ayame', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'T')here's never been anything remotely like the "shaman tribe" because that's not how tribes work.


I'm sorry is there a rigid prediscribed formula for a tribe?


Yeah, the word "tribe" has an anthropological meaning.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ayame', 'I') went up and got the book just for you. The name of the tribe is Kurumba from the Nilgiri hills of India who 'made and raised almost nothing' compared to the other tribes.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Lucifer Principle', 'B')ut of all four tribes the one with the greatest economic power was the Kurumba. Living in the jungle, the Kurumba did not raise wheat, did not make household utensils, and did not provide meat. They never even set forth to sell their wares; yet the work they offered brought the [others] trekking through the dense foligae to the Kurumba, begging for a service that was totally intagible, one whose value cannot even be proven to exist.


Interesting. There are other tribes who have been semi-parasitical (such as the Comanche). I think I misunderstood what you had posted previously. So, I will say, my first response was in error because of misunderstanding. But I'm stupid like that. :)

How do you prove the "value" of something other than the desire of others to have it?
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Re: Gullibilty

Unread postby JPL » Sat 16 Dec 2006, 13:27:52

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JPL', '
')Anyhow, I'll get it off my chest. In my travels about the biosphere I keep (accidentally) meeting to people who have had the same dream. It's about a tidal wave sweeping over the land.

There. Anyone else had this one???
*raises hand* yep, me too. Freud even wrote about that one: the dream is about the original trauma: birth, says the man with the cigar and grim face.


Ah but Jung would have disagreed and said it might be a portent of traumas to come ;o)

Anyone looked at the dreams on that web site I posted? (Yea, I know the stuff about aliens is a bit OTT) But why are all those non-peakers dreaming about the collapse of civilisation, all of a sudden???

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Re: Gullibilty

Unread postby NEOPO » Sat 16 Dec 2006, 14:30:33

It does not appear to be a sudden realization really its just the internet making it possible for us to communicate on a higher level.
To share more of our thoughts with millions of people simultaneously.

We have all been exposed to pretty much the same stimuli so I do not find it hard to believe that many of us have similar dreams.
The very strange unique dreams are the ones I pay more attention to.

The relative anonymity provided by the internet may also help loosin people up abit and instead of everyone being dogs online - we are much more truthful then people are in the "real fake" world.

Some people have been trying to understand dreams for a very long time.
My first exposure to the thought that dreams have meaning came from my great grandmother and now that she is gone I wish I had written all of those strange stories down.
Usually alot of opposite meanings but some were different such as muddy water means trouble while clear water may mean a cleansing instead of a horrible flood.
Death = birth and vice versa.

Dreams, Visions and revelations regardless of wether they occur in sleep or while awake all have some meaning and relevance IMO.

The question is wether we and the shamans were/are seeing the future or just smart enough to predict it with relative accuracy or is it a bit of both......

and yes it may be something that we have been unable to forget - the trauma of deluge.

Let us never forget the use of mind altering drugs and other important stimuli that many shaman et al used in various rituals and ceremonies.
The same that are now considered by many to be the evil that undermines our entire civilization........ hah! 8)

System of a down Spiders live

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he piercing radiant moon,
The storming of poor June,
All the life running through her hair,
Approaching guiding light,
Our shallow years in fright,
Dreams are made winding through my head,
Through my head,
Before you know,
Awake,
Your lives are open wide,
The V-chip gives them sight,
All the life running through her hair,
The spiders all in tune,
The evening of the moon,
Dreams are made winding through my head,
Through my head,
Before you know,
Awake
Through my head,
Before you know,
Before you know I will be waiting all awake,
Dreams are made winding through her hair,
Dreams are made winding through her hair.


America and world... awake!
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Re: Gullibilty

Unread postby PenultimateManStanding » Sat 16 Dec 2006, 14:52:43

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JPL', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JPL', '
')Anyhow, I'll get it off my chest. In my travels about the biosphere I keep (accidentally) meeting to people who have had the same dream. It's about a tidal wave sweeping over the land.

There. Anyone else had this one???
*raises hand* yep, me too. Freud even wrote about that one: the dream is about the original trauma: birth, says the man with the cigar and grim face.


Ah but Jung would have disagreed and said it might be a portent of traumas to come ;o)

Anyone looked at the dreams on that web site I posted? (Yea, I know the stuff about aliens is a bit OTT) But why are all those non-peakers dreaming about the collapse of civilisation, all of a sudden???

JPL
that isn't so far-fetched. Freud would have said it was mystical jibberish but I'm not so sure. Not that it is genuine clairevoyance, just a general anxiety perhaps. When I was a kid I had a dream about a nuclear explosion in the distance. Everyone was scurrying around like an ant colony that some kid kicks just to watch them get agitated. It was way off in the future and there were futuristic scyscrapers with walkways at the high stories between buildings. I sat down to wait for the blast way above the street and when it arrived everything was gone but my consciousness. The tidal wave dream could have both Freud and Jung's meanings simultaneously. Fear of the end deluge and a return to the prenatal bliss before the pain of crashing out in a fluid rage, a tormenting wrench into a cold world that must have seemed horrible. Then some alien giant slaps you across the face!
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Re: Gullibilty

Unread postby Ludi » Sat 16 Dec 2006, 15:11:04

"Aren't we all born at sea
Water breaks, the woman screams
Such violence
You'd think that our world
Was coming to an end
Aren't we all borne on blood
Hearts beat, the cord ruptures
So much gore
You'd think, so much injury
We'd never mend..."

Don't Drop the Baby - The Judybats
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Re: Gullibilty

Unread postby rogerhb » Sat 16 Dec 2006, 15:25:36

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'H')ow do you prove the "value" of something other than the desire of others to have it?


How much they are prepared to trade for it.
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers." - Henry Louis Mencken
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Re: Gullibilty

Unread postby Ludi » Sat 16 Dec 2006, 15:34:25

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rogerhb', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'H')ow do you prove the "value" of something other than the desire of others to have it?


How much they are prepared to trade for it.


That would be a measure of their desire, I think....
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Re: Gullibilty

Unread postby PenultimateManStanding » Sat 16 Dec 2006, 16:46:22

Nice thoughts, EJ but it seems the cat is out of the bag. It's too late. These are bad times, just as Matthew Arnold was hinting at at the end of the 19th century. Things have only gotten worse since then and will continue to do so. Civilizations really do seem to have their phases and we are clearly in an end phase.
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Re: Gullibilty

Unread postby JPL » Sat 16 Dec 2006, 20:48:08

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JPL', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JPL', '
')Anyhow, I'll get it off my chest. In my travels about the biosphere I keep (accidentally) meeting to people who have had the same dream. It's about a tidal wave sweeping over the land.

There. Anyone else had this one???
*raises hand* yep, me too. Freud even wrote about that one: the dream is about the original trauma: birth, says the man with the cigar and grim face.


Ah but Jung would have disagreed and said it might be a portent of traumas to come ;o)

Anyone looked at the dreams on that web site I posted? (Yea, I know the stuff about aliens is a bit OTT) But why are all those non-peakers dreaming about the collapse of civilisation, all of a sudden???

JPL
that isn't so far-fetched. Freud would have said it was mystical jibberish but I'm not so sure. Not that it is genuine clairevoyance, just a general anxiety perhaps. When I was a kid I had a dream about a nuclear explosion in the distance. Everyone was scurrying around like an ant colony that some kid kicks just to watch them get agitated. It was way off in the future and there were futuristic scyscrapers with walkways at the high stories between buildings. I sat down to wait for the blast way above the street and when it arrived everything was gone but my consciousness. The tidal wave dream could have both Freud and Jung's meanings simultaneously. Fear of the end deluge and a return to the prenatal bliss before the pain of crashing out in a fluid rage, a tormenting wrench into a cold world that must have seemed horrible. Then some alien giant slaps you across the face!


Hi PMS

Thanks for the constructive reply. I sort-of threw the subject in first-off because I didn't want to appear an idiot ;o)

Some years ago I was involved with a meditation group. Some of the members I still keep in touch with and several have been freaking out recently. It seems that harmonising wth the 'AUM' and keeping a dream diary doesn't seem to be a relaxing as it used to be ;o)

Supposing some-one(thing?) is trying to tell us something here. That's my proposal, anyhow. I have no 'big answer' - just a lot of questions, really...

JPL
Nothing ever happens, nothing happens at all
The needle returns to the start of the song
And we all sing along like before


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Re: Gullibilty

Unread postby Ludi » Sat 16 Dec 2006, 21:07:32

Any person who is aware of world events and the ecosphere will be upset to some degree now, unless they are able to completely dissociate themselves from the world.
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Re: Gullibilty

Unread postby PenultimateManStanding » Sat 16 Dec 2006, 22:13:24

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JPL', ' ')It seems that harmonising wth the 'AUM' and keeping a dream diary doesn't seem to be a relaxing as it used to be ;o)

Supposing some-one(thing?) is trying to tell us something here. That's my proposal, anyhow. I have no 'big answer' - just a lot of questions, really...

JPL
Years ago I spent a lot of time and effort on the writings of the British historian Arnold Toynbee. I was only in my early twenties at the time so I'm sure a lot of what he was saying I really couldn't understand. It is a multivolume study of all the civilzations that have existed and how they rose and fell. Societies can and do disintegrate. The effort of some of the authors we are familiar with here, Diamond, Tainter, etc. to pin this on degradation of the environment is not something Toynbee would probably agree is the reason societies crumble. Something happens in the souls of people in civilizations as the generations pass. I quoted the Matthew Arnold poem because it hints about that. I think it was eric_b who speculated the other day that pollutants are damaging the brains of people alive now and it's getting worse. The problem, I would say, is that our civilization has been aging and growing decrepit for centuries. One of Toynbee's ideas that struck me was that the final stage of a civilization involves greatly intensified work in technology and the loss of the spiritual work involved in the young, creative and thriving phase of a civilization, and this pattern has occured over and again with other now gone examples. This sure sounds like us. Look at the culture and you can see the hollowing out, the attraction for gizmos and special effects in movies going along with a general deterioration of literacy, a cynical gutting of the fine arts, even decreasing intellectual achievement in science seems to be occuring now in the younger generations and a widespread reluctance to go into engineering which would seem to show that we are really far gone indeed. There is a growing sense that "tomorrow is worse than today" as they say in Iraq. But it is everywhere, like the air we breathe. Some people care not about this sort of thing and won't ever even know what is happening. Many people have no understanding at all of how things are changing and are always changing; but some feel it and maybe your friends feel it, JPL. Changes for the worse and no hope that things will ever get any better for the collective spiritual state of the society around us.
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Re: Gullibilty

Unread postby rogerhb » Sat 16 Dec 2006, 22:52:14

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'A')ny person who is aware of world events and the ecosphere will be upset to some degree now, unless they are able to completely dissociate themselves from the world.


With apologies to Rudyard Kipling:

"If you are able to keep your head when all around are losing theirs, then perhaps you don't have a full grasp of the situation".
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers." - Henry Louis Mencken
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Re: Gullibilty

Unread postby coyote » Sun 17 Dec 2006, 01:10:42

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'A')ny person who is aware of world events and the ecosphere will be upset to some degree now, unless they are able to completely dissociate themselves from the world.

Yes. People all over are beginning to come to the feeling that something just isn't right. They might not be able to tell you the first thing about petroleum geopolitics or ecology, but there's just a feeling.

I noticed it first when I took some survivalist/naturalist classes in the early part of this year. The subject came up, and several people mentioned feeling this way lately. Of course, you might expect that from folks at such a class, but one guy's response stuck in my head: when he told his mother about the class, she looked at him fiercely and ordered him, if things went bad, to look after his sister first. "She never talks like that," he said...

These dreams of a great wave seem like a perfect analogy for the times ahead: there is a wave coming, and it is going to sweep over the land, and it will be a force of great change, good and bad, mostly bad. People are sensing it, even if they couldn't put into words or even a coherent thought.

Anyone here ever read Childhood's End? When the Overlords finally appeared, they were in the form of our greatest nightmare, the devil... we'd collectively foreseen humanity's end, and the Overlords' involvement, and through dreams incorporated its image into our culture. Thoroughly fiction, and eerily resembles this discussion...
Lord, here comes the flood
We'll say goodbye to flesh and blood
If again the seas are silent in any still alive
It'll be those who gave their island to survive...
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Re: Gullibilty

Unread postby NEOPO » Sun 17 Dec 2006, 02:34:52

I have this dream where there is something right beside me just out of view - I can feel it breathing and its hatred of me.
I know it wants to kill me but for some reason it can only get right next to me and growl.....for now at least.....
One day I hope to be able to turn and look at it as it looks at me.
I wonder if it will be me staring back at me - my hatred or the projection thereof......
Then again maybe its the devil or the overlords! 8)

As far as something just aint right.
Look at a 2000 year population chart.
Look at a 300 year energy chart.
You always thought it was speeding up.
Its not that you are just getting older.

This reminds me of the mayans and the pyramid of existence thing.
1st step billions of years
2nd step 100's of millions of years.
3rd step millions of years.
faster and faster.
2012?

The Mayan concept that a new age will soon be upon us.

The Hopi prophecies seem very relevant and in line with all of this.

HOPE <---hopi prophecy

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')hite Feather, Bear Clan
"The Fourth World shall end soon, and the Fifth World will begin. This the elders everywhere know. The Signs over many years have been fulfilled, and so few are left.

"This is the First Sign: We were told of the coming of the white-skinned men, like Pahana, but not living like Pahana -- men who took the land that was not theirs and who struck their enemies with thunder. (Guns)

"This is the Second Sign: Our lands will see the coming of spinning wheels filled with voices. (Covered wagons)

"This is the Third Sign: A strange beast like a buffalo but with great long horns, will overrun the land in large numbers. (Longhorn cattle)

"This is the Fourth Sign: The land will be crossed by snakes of iron. (Railroad tracks)

"This is the Fifth Sign: The land shall be criss-crossed by a giant spider's web. (Power and telephone lines)

"This is the Sixth Sign: The land shall be criss-crossed with rivers of stone that make pictures in the sun. (Concrete roads and their mirage-producing effects.)

"This is the Seventh Sign: You will hear of the sea turning black, and many living things dying because of it. (Oil spills)

"This is the Eighth Sign: You will see many youth, who wear their hair long like our people, come and join the tribal nations, to learn our ways and wisdom. (Hippies)

"And this is the Ninth and Last Sign: You will hear of a dwelling-place in the heavens, above the earth, that shall fall with a great crash. It will appear as a blue star. Very soon after this, the ceremonies of the Hopi people will cease.

"These are the Signs that great destruction is here: The world shall rock to and fro. The white man will battle people in other lands -- those who possessed the first light of wisdom. There will be many columns of smoke and fire such as the white man has made in the deserts not far from here. Those who stay and live in the places of the Hopi shall be safe. Then there will be much to rebuild. And soon, very soon afterward, Pahana will return. He shall bring with him the dawn of the Fifth World. He shall plant the seeds of his wisdom in our hearts. Even now the seeds are being planted. These shall smooth the way to the Emergence into the Fifth World."


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'P')rophecies to be Fulfilled -- Dan Evehema, Hopi Elder

[From various sources -- chiefly The Hopi Survival Kit by Thomas E. Mails & Chief Dan Evehema]

"The time will come when from the earth will arise a mystic fog which will dilute the minds and hearts of all people. Their guidelines of wisdom and knowledge will falter, the Great Laws of our Creator will dissolve in the minds of people. Children will be out of control and will no longer obey the leaders, immorality and the competitive war of greed will flourish.

"When the end is near, we will see a halo of mist around the heavenly bodies. Four times it will appear around the sun as a warning that we must reform, telling us that people of all color must unite and arise for survival, and that we must uncover the causes of our dilemmas. Unless man-made weapons are used to strike first, peace will then come.

"So the time will come when we will experience late springs and early frosts, this will be the sign of the returning Ice Age.

"We believe militarism is born out of injustice, poverty and ignorance where absolute governments refuse to hear the grievances of minorities. So the people resort to violence, demonstrations and even terrorism when they see no other way to be heard. What can we do when our world leaders and the people are acting like fools in attempts to solve the problems confronting us? Once again we will quote the prophecy of our Elders. We hope it will interest you so that you will be more aware of it because it has been happening for some time.

"According to prophecy, the day will come when people in high places will be hunted. This will get out of control. The hunting will gather strength and spread. This situation might even erupt on our land. Finally, this will lead us to the Biblical version of Armageddon (the Hopi version is closely related). A final decisive battle between good and evil. This will occur under one God or Chief. The prophets say we will speak one language and that this will happen in Hopiland, in the village of Oraibi , where the new life plan will be drawn, in the pattern and cycle of religion. Here also a final decision will be made for the wicked. They will be beheaded and speak no more. If this does not materialize there will be a total destruction through the acts of man or nature. Then new life will begin from a girl and a boy. This is a frightening prophecy and will not be supported by many.

"It is in the prophecies of the Hopi that in a case like this the Navajo may help our cause. Also the Bahannas or the Paiute Tribe may help. We doubt that the U.S. Government will easily concede our sovereignty.

"There are two water serpents, one at each pole with a warrior sitting on his head and tail. These command nature to warn us by her activities that time is getting short, and we must correct ourselves. If we refuse to heed these warnings, the warriors will let go of the serpents; they will rise up, and all will perish.

"We are much concerned about the climate. No one seems to be able to predict the weather accurately from day to day. However, we know according to our time markers that it is past due for certain seeds to be planted at their proper time. In recent springs, we were reluctant to plant due to the late snow and cold weather. Once more maybe our ancient prophecy is right, that one day we will plant wearing finger sacks (gloves) clearing away snow with our feet before planting. The summers will become shorter for maturing the corn for harvest. The result is anybody's guess.

"The question is, will this occur the world over? This would depend on the geographical areas. In the regions with different climates, things will happen in different ways. For instance, tropical land could become a land of ice, and the Arctic region could become tropical. This need not happen if we, the people, get our leaders to do something about the harmful things being done to the environment.

"It is said that, if the future generations find out that we did nothing to preserve the good ways, they might throw us from our houses into the streets. This suffering will be of our own making. The lack of peace in our own spiritual being could trigger the revolution. Our True White Brother might come and find we have forsaken the sacred instructions. Then he will whip us without mercy.

"Let us take a look into the future through the eyes of our prophets. Hopi were instructed to tell of the Great Purification just ahead of a time when Humankind would once again become highly civilized, tending to become careless and leading us to self-destruction. They said that, along the way, the industrialized world will have certain problems. People will be uncomfortable because of the changing times, and they will have to make adjustments to find new life styles.

"Industrialized nations will become careless in getting more the resources out of the earth. Believing all these things will last forever, soon natural resources will be depleted. Fuel shortages will occur; industrial machinery will come to a standstill. The machinery used for planting, harvesting and transport will become useless. Supermarket shelves will become empty of farm produce. The farmers and those who grow their own food will not sell their produce. Money will become worthless. The white man with all his intelligence and technology will not be able to repair the damage. We will see extraordinary events in Nature and Earth, including humans.

"Modern man looks upon old wisdom and knowledge as dead, useless and no longer respected. Modern man depends on the money system and no longer on Mother Earth for food. According to prophecy when this happens Mother Earth will hide her nourishment because of the view that ancient food is poor man's food. When all food disappears, modern man will try to correct his mistake, the conditions he caused upon the earth through his inventions. He will try to achieve some kind of method to heal the wound, but this will not be possible when we reach the point of no return.

"The Hopi play a key role in the survival of the human race through their vital communion with the unseen forces that hold nature in balance. The pattern is simple: The whole world will shake and turn red and turn against those who are hindering the Hopi.

"This prophecy is related to the Biblical version of that which may yet come to pass. It goes on to say that common people will become concerned and frustrated because of their hectic world. They will be particularly against the bloodthirsty policies and the deceitfulness of the world leaders. The common people the world over will band together to fight for world peace. They will realize that their leaders have failed. People in high places will be hunted down like animals, perhaps through terrorism. In turn leaders will retaliate and begin hunting each other. This condition will gather strength and spread far and wide. It will get out of control the world over. Revolution could erupt on our land.

"The liberators will come in from the west with great force. They will drop down from the sky like rain. They will have no mercy. We must not get on the house tops to watch. They will shake us by our ears, like children who have been bad. This will be the final decisive battle between good and evil. This battle will cleanse the heart of people and restore our Mother Earth from illness, and the wicked will be gotten rid of.

"If this fails to materialize, our Great Creator through nature will do the task according to their [sic] plans. It could be total destruction in any form. Only brother and sister will survive to begin a new way of life. This prophecy is frightening and doubtful. Perhaps it is of no value to most people.

"Eventually a gourd full of ashes would be invented, which, if dropped from the sky, would boil the oceans and burn the land causing nothing to grow for many years. This would be the sign for a certain Hopi to bring out the teachings in order to warn the world that the third and final event would happen soon and could bring an end to all life unless people correct themselves and their leaders in time.

"The final stage, called The Great Day of Purification, has been described as a Mystery Egg in which the forces of the Swastika and the Sun plus a third force symbolized by the color red culminate either in total rebirth or total annihilation; we don't know which. But the choice is yours; war and natural catastrophe may be involved. The degree of violence will be determined by the degree of inequity caused among the peoples of the world and in the balance of nature. In this crisis rich and poor will be forced to struggle as equals in order to survive.


Quoted material from:
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Re: Gullibilty

Unread postby JPL » Mon 18 Dec 2006, 19:39:30

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'A')ny person who is aware of world events and the ecosphere will be upset to some degree now, unless they are able to completely dissociate themselves from the world.


Thanks, these comments are great, this has been a really positive thread. I now have a lot to think about ;o)

Just one thing now bothers me. Suppose the dreams were not about Environmental collapse, or about Peak Oil,but rather about something else? OK, I may be going off on one here, but as a well-informed, Peak-Oil aware, Global Warming kind of person, I can't see why my sub-conscious mind is STILL trying to tell me something.

I mean, what is the point of a dream that tells you what you already know? Maybe there is something I'm missing here?

Well, I have this theory, it's probably not a very good theory, but it's mine, so I will say it for what it's worth.

I can fit the dream (the tidal wave) into a picture if I see it as a rising tide of - fear. So people like ourselves, we learn about Peak Oil, Global Warming, the inevitability of social-economic collapse etc, and we do the natural thing, which is to freak out...

So we feel 'THE FEAR'. I have seen it plenty of times on this forum. And there are other places on the web where this is happening, it seems to be a universal phenomena (with good reason, I accept that!).

The 'fear' manifests itself as a dream/vision within the group mind. It takes a form, an image, which is that of a tidal wave, crashing over everything that we know and love. And the more people that have this dream, and feel 'the fear', the more it gathers speed, and moves on, and on, ever gathering speed...

I just have this horrible feeling right now that the gathering 'fear' might cause more problems - than the crisis itself? Maybe that's the 'real' message???

JPL
Nothing ever happens, nothing happens at all
The needle returns to the start of the song
And we all sing along like before


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Re: Gullibilty

Unread postby rogerhb » Mon 18 Dec 2006, 20:52:50

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JPL', 'I') mean, what is the point of a dream that tells you what you already know? Maybe there is something I'm missing here?


My "idea sorting" purpose function of dreams happily deals with this - dreams aren't trying to tell you anything in the first place. It's a sorting process.
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers." - Henry Louis Mencken
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