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Most dangerous weapon on Earth?

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Most dangerous weapon on Earth?

Poll ended at Fri 12 Jan 2007, 10:32:24

Atomic bomb
0
0%
H bomb
3
No votes
Biological bomb
4
No votes
Fundamentalism
14
No votes
Information
6
No votes
Stupidity
18
No votes
 
Total votes : 45

Re: Most dangerous weapon on Earth?

Unread postby jupiters_release » Thu 14 Dec 2006, 00:58:29

previously posted

I Electro-magnetic Pulse (EMP) attack
China and Russia are two potential US adversaries that have the
capability for this kind of attack. An EMP attack can either come
from an intercontinental ballistic missile (ICBM), a submarine-
launched ballistic missile (SLBM), a long-range cruise missile, or
an orbiting satellite armed with a nuclear or non-nuclear EMP
warhead. A nuclear burst of one (or more) megaton some 400
kilometers over central United States (Omaha, Nebraska) can blanket
the whole continental US with electro-magnetic pulse in less than
one second.

An EMP attack will damage all electrical grids on the US mainland.
It will disable computers and other similar electronic devices with
microchips. Most businesses and industries will shut down. The
entire US economy will practically grind to a halt. Satellites
within line of sight of the EMP burst will also be damaged,
adversely affecting military command, control, communications,
computers, intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance (C4ISR).
Land-based intercontinental ballistic missiles will be rendered
unserviceable in their silos. Anti-ballistic missile defenses will
suffer the same fate. In short – total blackout. And American
society as we know it will be thrown back to the Dark Ages.
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Re: Most dangerous weapon on Earth?

Unread postby cynicalheretic » Thu 14 Dec 2006, 03:13:18

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jupiters_release', '[')i]previously posted

I Electro-magnetic Pulse (EMP) attack
China and Russia are two potential US adversaries that have the
capability for this kind of attack. An EMP attack can either come
from an intercontinental ballistic missile (ICBM), a submarine-
launched ballistic missile (SLBM), a long-range cruise missile, or
an orbiting satellite armed with a nuclear or non-nuclear EMP
warhead. A nuclear burst of one (or more) megaton some 400
kilometers over central United States (Omaha, Nebraska) can blanket
the whole continental US with electro-magnetic pulse in less than
one second.

An EMP attack will damage all electrical grids on the US mainland.
It will disable computers and other similar electronic devices with
microchips. Most businesses and industries will shut down. The
entire US economy will practically grind to a halt. Satellites
within line of sight of the EMP burst will also be damaged,
adversely affecting military command, control, communications,
computers, intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance (C4ISR).
Land-based intercontinental ballistic missiles will be rendered
unserviceable in their silos. Anti-ballistic missile defenses will
suffer the same fate. In short – total blackout. And American
society as we know it will be thrown back to the Dark Ages.


All nuclear Missile Silos are protected from EMP based attacks. As well as most other government infrastructure. Small Government and the people will be the most effected, but It would still fuck this country up enough to cause mass hesteria and all sort of crazy ass shit will happen.
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Re: Most dangerous weapon on Earth?

Unread postby jupiters_release » Thu 14 Dec 2006, 09:55:25

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('cynicalheretic', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jupiters_release', '[')i]previously posted

I Electro-magnetic Pulse (EMP) attack
China and Russia are two potential US adversaries that have the
capability for this kind of attack. An EMP attack can either come
from an intercontinental ballistic missile (ICBM), a submarine-
launched ballistic missile (SLBM), a long-range cruise missile, or
an orbiting satellite armed with a nuclear or non-nuclear EMP
warhead. A nuclear burst of one (or more) megaton some 400
kilometers over central United States (Omaha, Nebraska) can blanket
the whole continental US with electro-magnetic pulse in less than
one second.

An EMP attack will damage all electrical grids on the US mainland.
It will disable computers and other similar electronic devices with
microchips. Most businesses and industries will shut down. The
entire US economy will practically grind to a halt. Satellites
within line of sight of the EMP burst will also be damaged,
adversely affecting military command, control, communications,
computers, intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance (C4ISR).
Land-based intercontinental ballistic missiles will be rendered
unserviceable in their silos. Anti-ballistic missile defenses will
suffer the same fate. In short – total blackout. And American
society as we know it will be thrown back to the Dark Ages.


All nuclear Missile Silos are protected from EMP based attacks. As well as most other government infrastructure.


Whatever government infrastructure survives won't be able to control the rest of the country without electronics imo. I would hope the nuclear silos wouldn't all detonate either or then there really wouldn't be anything left LOL.

::::

It is also important to realize how vulnerable the military is to EMP. "Military systems often use the most sophisticated and therefore most vulnerable, electronics available, and many of the systems that must operate during a nuclear war cannot tolerate the temporary disturbances that EMP may induce."(17) Furthermore, many military duties require information to be communicated over long distances. This type of communication requires external antennas, which are extremely susceptible to EMP. Also, some military duties require information-gathering techniques. Many of these techniques use electronic devices connected directly to antennas or radar. Although the devices may be inside shielded buildings, the antennas bring the EMP inside to the electronics. Therefore, the effectiveness of shielding must be examined.
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Re: Most dangerous weapon on Earth?

Unread postby Doly » Thu 14 Dec 2006, 10:22:01

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jupiters_release', 'M')ilitary systems often use the most sophisticated and therefore most vulnerable, electronics available.


I have actually worked for a company that provided military electronic components to the military, so I know that this is incorrect. In fact, the reverse is true.

Military systems practically always use components tested under more rigurous conditions than commercial equipment. In fact, there are three standard levels of tolerance for electronic equipment: commercial (will stand usual conditions but no extremes), military (will stand extremes) and space (will stand some serious sh*t).

The flipside of this is that most of the most modern and sophisticated commercially available electronic components are not available at military levels. As the military are forbidden from using commercial electronic components, and their projects usually take longer to complete, the result is that they are the greatest consumers of obsolete electronic components, and their designs are often far less sophisticated than their commercial counterparts.
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Re: Most dangerous weapon on Earth?

Unread postby WisJim » Thu 14 Dec 2006, 11:37:45

I vote for the automobile. It kills people directly in accidents and indirectly through pollution, environmental degradation, etc.
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Re: Most dangerous weapon on Earth?

Unread postby Specop_007 » Thu 14 Dec 2006, 12:36:31

Humanity. We've always killed each other since the dawn of time. We've also been the only species that actively works to kill each other more effectively and faster.
"Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the
Abyss, the Abyss gazes also into you."

Ammo at a gunfight is like bubblegum in grade school: If you havent brought enough for everyone, you're in trouble
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Re: Most dangerous weapon on Earth?

Unread postby Specop_007 » Thu 14 Dec 2006, 12:40:21

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dukey', 'i') vote the bush administration
wheres that option ?

The US spends more on defense than like the rest of the entire world combined :p


And we spend more on Health Services then we do on Defense!

So, I guess you could say we're healthy killers?
"Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the
Abyss, the Abyss gazes also into you."

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Re: Most dangerous weapon on Earth?

Unread postby 0mar » Thu 14 Dec 2006, 14:57:56

Military electronics were vurnable in maybe the '40s, but after extensive testing during the '50s and '60s, most military equipment is hardened against EMP blasts.
Joseph Stalin
"It is enough that the people know there was an election. The people who cast the votes decide nothing. The people who count the votes decide everything. "
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Re: Most dangerous weapon on Earth?

Unread postby leal » Thu 14 Dec 2006, 16:55:20

Hell has no fury like a woman scorned
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Re: Most dangerous weapon on Earth?

Unread postby Schneider » Thu 14 Dec 2006, 20:05:22

naaaah..folks..you all are wrong :P !

Here the most dangerous weapon of our time --> US Dollar...

Why !? Hell..right now,the chineses would not try to battle a conventional war again the USofA or even use some nukes.they know that they would be atomized in the next 15 mins :shock: !

The Chineses have hopelessly insane amounts of US$ and bonds..Why bother when the only thing you need to do is to flood the international markets with shitloads of pieces of worthless green papers :roll: !?

If they do it..the next morning americans will go from the most powerfull economy in history right to the level of third world economy almost overnight by the domino effect [smilie=confused2.gif] ..

Just try to think about the impacts all over the world..it would be dropping a economic nuke on the world economy :cry: (and we..canadians will suffer with you..85% of our exports are shipped to America) !

So people..repeat after me..the US dollar is the most dangerous weapons of our time.. Schneider,you're right,you're a Genius..the US dollar is the most dangerous weapons of our time.. the US dollar is the most dangerous weapons of our time.. Schneider,you're right..you're a Geniusthe US dollar is the most dangerous weapons of our time..

So now that i am your guru,i'm all ready to take all donation under the form of gold..siver,american express/visa/mastercard (but not for long) ,land and yea,some virgins [smilie=qgreenjumpers.gif] !!!

Oh..and let's not forget donuts...hmm..dooonuts [smilie=eusa_drool.gif] ..

Schneider [smilie=qgaraduate.gif]
French-Canadian
(Schneider's Books For The Future)
(Schneider's Big 5 Basic Advice For The Newcomers)
[url=http://youtube.com/watch?v=vL7Jo_1Z3Y8]Free Hugs!!![/
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Re: Most dangerous weapon on Earth?

Unread postby jupiters_release » Thu 14 Dec 2006, 22:14:01

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Doly', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jupiters_release', 'M')ilitary systems often use the most sophisticated and therefore most vulnerable, electronics available.


I have actually worked for a company that provided military electronic components to the military, so I know that this is incorrect. In fact, the reverse is true.

Military systems practically always use components tested under more rigurous conditions than commercial equipment. In fact, there are three standard levels of tolerance for electronic equipment: commercial (will stand usual conditions but no extremes), military (will stand extremes) and space (will stand some serious sh*t).

The flipside of this is that most of the most modern and sophisticated commercially available electronic components are not available at military levels. As the military are forbidden from using commercial electronic components, and their projects usually take longer to complete, the result is that they are the greatest consumers of obsolete electronic components, and their designs are often far less sophisticated than their commercial counterparts.


I don't question the quality of military gear, but this EMP thing sounds pervasive short of cost prohibitive vacuum environments, course I don't know anything about electrical engineering just the impression I got reading about photons and such crossing the entire continent within a millisecond.
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Re: Most dangerous weapon on Earth?

Unread postby jupiters_release » Thu 14 Dec 2006, 22:19:58

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('0mar', 'M')ilitary electronics were vurnable in maybe the '40s, but after extensive testing during the '50s and '60s, most military equipment is hardened against EMP blasts.


Even if that were true, all of civilization would still end overnight and there's not much TPTB could do about it. Many are fooled by 9/11 but I have complete faith NORAD can and will intercept any such attempt of EMP attack. One thing TPTB don't get enough of is credit.
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Re: Most dangerous weapon on Earth?

Unread postby Doly » Fri 15 Dec 2006, 09:44:17

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jupiters_release', '
')Even if that were true, all of civilization would still end overnight and there's not much TPTB could do about it.


I don't think civilization would end overnight just because some of the electronics broke down. What proportion of the electronics would an EMP weapon break?
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Re: Most dangerous weapon on Earth?

Unread postby jupiters_release » Fri 15 Dec 2006, 12:55:11

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Doly', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jupiters_release', '
')Even if that were true, all of civilization would still end overnight and there's not much TPTB could do about it.


I don't think civilization would end overnight just because some of the electronics broke down. What proportion of the electronics would an EMP weapon break?


The electrical grid goes down, hundreds of thousands of transformers need to be rebuilt and replaced across the entire country, requiring years of work that becomes impossible without <<< electricity >>> .

Haven't had time to continue with http://www.giltweasel.com/stuff/LightsOut-Current.pdf

EMP DOOM
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Re: Most dangerous weapon on Earth?

Unread postby Dreamtwister » Fri 15 Dec 2006, 13:25:05

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Doly', 'I') don't think civilization would end overnight just because some of the electronics broke down. What proportion of the electronics would an EMP weapon break?


Everything that is not shielded against EMP. Which is basically everything.

And in case anyone is wondering, EMP shielding basically consists of sealed soft-iron casings. Simple, but prohibitively heavy for commercial applications. Would you buy a 4 pound cell phone?
The whole of human history is a refutation by experiment of the concept of "moral world order". - Friedrich Nietzsche
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Re: Most dangerous weapon on Earth?

Unread postby EnergyUnlimited » Fri 15 Dec 2006, 13:54:31

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Dreamtwister', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Doly', 'I') don't think civilization would end overnight just because some of the electronics broke down. What proportion of the electronics would an EMP weapon break?


Everything that is not shielded against EMP. Which is basically everything.

And in case anyone is wondering, EMP shielding basically consists of sealed soft-iron casings. Simple, but prohibitively heavy for commercial applications. Would you buy a 4 pound cell phone?


Any electron tube based old fashion equipment (including a radio belonging to my grandpa) would survive.
Many military applications are made with use of very small eclectron tubes (they can be as small as 0.1cc each, you may be able to get them on e-bay) and those would be not bothered by EMP at all.
Any old banger with carburattor would also run happily.
It might be impossible to protect your mobile, but if it was just wrapped well in aluminium foil at the time when EMP arrived, it would work later quite fine.
The bottom line is, that only semiconductors are susceptible to EMP, and in fact only few types of them.
Anything "static sensitive" will have no chances to survive...so bye, bye your PC...

You may wish to read about flux compressors, if you are interested in EMP.
Those are small non-nuclear devices capable to deliver quite substantial EMP.

With a little bit more than an A-level physics and some DIY skills you could probably build one at home (albeit it probably would be illegal to do).
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Re: Most dangerous weapon on Earth?

Unread postby EnergyUnlimited » Fri 15 Dec 2006, 14:06:45

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jupiters_release', '
')The electrical grid goes down, hundreds of thousands of transformers need to be rebuilt and replaced across the entire country, requiring years of work that becomes impossible without <<< electricity >>> .

The grid would go down by damage to electronics in control centres.
We would have to resort to old fashion manual control, before some critical electronics is replaced
The motion of power lines or transformers being physically destroyed by EMP is plain wrong.
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Re: Most dangerous weapon on Earth?

Unread postby Dreamtwister » Fri 15 Dec 2006, 14:34:44

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EnergyUnlimited', 'A')ny electron tube based old fashion equipment (including a radio belonging to my grandpa) would survive.


True. But how many of them are still out there and working? I don't think I've seen one in ~20 years.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EnergyUnlimited', 'A')ny old banger with carburattor would also run happily.


Also true. But again, how many of them are still in running condition?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EnergyUnlimited', 'I')t might be impossible to protect your mobile, but if it was just wrapped well in aluminium foil at the time when EMP arrived, it would work later quite fine.


Assuming of course that the transmission towers were also shielded. I don't know if they are or not, but I can't see a reason why they wouldn't be. But then again, big antenna = big shielding bypass conduit.

I don't think aluminium would work though, since it's non-magnetic. I guess you could encase it in cobalt, but I don't think many people have that laying around.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EnergyUnlimited', 'Y')ou may wish to read about flux compressors, if you are interested in EMP.
Those are small non-nuclear devices capable to deliver quite substantial EMP.

With a little bit more than an A-level physics and some DIY skills you could probably build one at home (albeit it probably would be illegal to do).


I don't know about in Canada, but such a device would almost certainly be in violation of FCC regs.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EnergyUnlimited', 'T')he motion of power lines or transformers being physically destroyed by EMP is plain wrong.

It depends on the amount of the current induced in the grid. If it's large enough, it most certainly can overload transformers. Fortunately, there are safeguards built into the system to prevent all but the most serious EMP's (Intense solar storms, nuclear war), but it's still a possibility.
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Re: Most dangerous weapon on Earth?

Unread postby EnergyUnlimited » Fri 15 Dec 2006, 16:06:07

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Dreamtwister', '
')I don't think aluminium would work though, since it's non-magnetic. I guess you could encase it in cobalt, but I don't think many people have that laying around.

You do not need ferromagnetic material to shield against EMP.
All, what you need, is good conductor wrapped around, encasing your item.
Preferably earthed conductor.

Anyway, when you are talking about ferromagnetic materials, why in the hell are you offering expensive cobalt and not much cheaper iron?

You may go even more clever and suggest some other exotic materials, likegadolinium, dysprosium or samarium or various alloys of those, but whats the point?
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Re: Most dangerous weapon on Earth?

Unread postby EnergyUnlimited » Fri 15 Dec 2006, 16:09:35

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Dreamtwister', '
')It depends on the amount of the current induced in the grid. If it's large enough, it most certainly can overload transformers. Fortunately, there are safeguards built into the system to prevent all but the most serious EMP's (Intense solar storms, nuclear war), but it's still a possibility.


Nuclear explosions will not deliver sufficient EMP to destroy power lines or transformers, unless the bomb exploded so nearly, that they would be done "for other reasons" anyway.
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