Donate Bitcoin

Donate Paypal


PeakOil is You

PeakOil is You

If Astronomers Detected a Signal from an Alien Civilization

What's on your mind?
General interest discussions, not necessarily related to depletion.

If Astronomers Detected a Signal from an Alien Civilization

Unread postby Jogger » Thu 23 Nov 2006, 20:16:22

Will astronomers detect a signal from an alien civilization sometime in the near future?

Radio and TV signals from Earth have been travelling great distances in space. It's possible that aliens have watched an episode of I Love Lucy.

There are billions of stars in our galaxy and billions of galaxies in the universe. It's possible, although unlikely, that a signal from an alien civilization is heading towards Earth. It could be detected sometime this century, or it may not be in our neighborhood for another 10,000 years.

So what would happen if astronomers detected a signal from an alien civilization? Would the government keep it a secret? Would there be mass panic?

Nobody knows right now if life exists elsewhere in the universe. It's possible a few or perhaps many will know the answer in the midst of a declining oil supply and a changing climate from global warming.
Last edited by Jogger on Thu 23 Nov 2006, 20:56:06, edited 3 times in total.
User avatar
Jogger
Wood
Wood
 
Posts: 47
Joined: Sun 12 Feb 2006, 04:00:00

Re: Will Humans Discover That They Are Not Alone in the Univ

Unread postby AWPrime » Thu 23 Nov 2006, 20:34:00

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jogger', 'W')ill astronomers detect a signal from an alien civilization sometime in the near future?

I find this to be unlikely, but I will take it serious.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'S')o what would happen if astronomers detected a signal from an alien civilization? Would the government keep it a secret?

They might, if they are capable of keeping it a secret.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')ould there be mass panic?

There might be. It is known that isolated tribes go into decline when they find out how big and advanced the world is. Many humans have overinflated egos that will be destroyed by such a discovery.


Now to take that scenario apart.
1. No intelligent species would use radio waves to communicate with other starsystems, it is just too slow.
2. Any signal would be very weak so we might not pick it up.
3. We might not notich it.
4. How do we decode it?


My advice, look for a way to have FTL communication, then start searching.
AWPrime
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 514
Joined: Thu 07 Jul 2005, 03:00:00
Location: Europe

Re: Will Humans Discover That They Are Not Alone in the Univ

Unread postby Niagara » Thu 23 Nov 2006, 23:24:15

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AWPrime', '
')1. No intelligent species would use radio waves to communicate with other starsystems, it is just too slow.

But radio waves, like all electromagnetic radiation, travel at the speed of light. What's faster?
Remember: 73.3% of statistics are made up
and the other 23.6% are wrong
User avatar
Niagara
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 612
Joined: Thu 17 Aug 2006, 03:00:00
Location: Mt. Hubbert Scenic Lookout

Re: If Astronomers Detected a Signal from an Alien Civilizat

Unread postby smallpoxgirl » Thu 23 Nov 2006, 23:31:29

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jogger', 'S')o what would happen if astronomers detected a signal from an alien civilization? Would the government keep it a secret?
The government would keep it secret because the message would be critical of Bush.
"We were standing on the edges
Of a thousand burning bridges
Sifting through the ashes every day
What we thought would never end
Now is nothing more than a memory
The way things were before
I lost my way" - OCMS
User avatar
smallpoxgirl
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 7258
Joined: Mon 08 Nov 2004, 04:00:00
Top

Re: Will Humans Discover That They Are Not Alone in the Univ

Unread postby Daculling » Fri 24 Nov 2006, 00:19:25

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Niagara', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AWPrime', '
')1. No intelligent species would use radio waves to communicate with other starsystems, it is just too slow.

But radio waves, like all electromagnetic radiation, travel at the speed of light. What's faster?


Quantum entanglement.
Daculling
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1228
Joined: Tue 12 Apr 2005, 03:00:00
Top

Re: If Astronomers Detected a Signal from an Alien Civilizat

Unread postby Stratovarius » Fri 24 Nov 2006, 04:57:15

My 9-dimensional crystal matrix is modulated with tachyons.
Stratovarius
Coal
Coal
 
Posts: 464
Joined: Fri 17 Nov 2006, 04:00:00

Re: If Astronomers Detected a Signal from an Alien Civilizat

Unread postby Battle_Scarred_Galactico » Fri 24 Nov 2006, 05:29:06

Don't get your hopes up, the distances involved would take even light hundreds of thousands, even millions of years to travel.
---
Battle_Scarred_Galactico
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 935
Joined: Thu 07 Apr 2005, 03:00:00

Re: Will Humans Discover That They Are Not Alone in the Univ

Unread postby AWPrime » Fri 24 Nov 2006, 06:54:41

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Niagara', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AWPrime', '
')1. No intelligent species would use radio waves to communicate with other starsystems, it is just too slow.

But radio waves, like all electromagnetic radiation, travel at the speed of light. What's faster?

Doesn't matter, it is still too slow.
AWPrime
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 514
Joined: Thu 07 Jul 2005, 03:00:00
Location: Europe
Top

Re: If Astronomers Detected a Signal from an Alien Civilizat

Unread postby Omnitir » Fri 24 Nov 2006, 08:34:00

Actually, despite what Sagan argued and what Star Trek conveyed, if you look at the numbers it is actually highly unlikely that there is any other intelligence anywhere in the galaxy.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', ' ')There are billions of stars in our galaxy

Yes, but only a tiny fraction of those are anything close to the perfect size for Earth-like planets to exist. And of that tiny fraction, only a tiny fraction would likely have the right planetary setup to protect the inner system and allow life to form. And of that tiny fraction, there would likely only be a tiny fraction that have a planet at just the right distance from the star to support life. And of that tiny fraction, it is incredibly unlikely that a precise and marvellously lucky collision occurred with another planet that was just enough to form an abnormally large moon but not destroy the planet, and so allowing stable seasons and gently cycling gravitational pulls.

The odds of an Earth-like planet forming just once in the galaxy are astronomically low. It’s incredible that we are here at all. The odds of it occurring more then once, even with billions of stars out there, are pretty damn small.

And then there’s Fermi’s paradox. Any advanced civilization, even with space flight speeds equal to our own, has had enough time to colonise the entire galaxy long before we even evolved. If they exist, why can’t we see their galactic super-civilization?

Humans are most likely the only spark of intelligence the galaxy, possibly the universe, has ever managed to fluke. If we are such a rare development, it would be a shame to let that spark die out because of short sighted greed, wouldn’t it?
"Mother Nature is a psychopathic bitch, and she is out to get you. You have to adapt, change or die." - Tihamer Toth-Fejel, nanotech researcher/engineer.
User avatar
Omnitir
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 894
Joined: Sat 02 Apr 2005, 04:00:00
Location: Down Under
Top

Re: If Astronomers Detected a Signal from an Alien Civilizat

Unread postby Aaron » Fri 24 Nov 2006, 08:43:22

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'Y')es, but only a tiny fraction of those are anything close to the perfect size for Earth-like planets to exist. And of that tiny fraction, only a tiny fraction would likely have the right planetary setup to protect the inner system and allow life to form. And of that tiny fraction, there would likely only be a tiny fraction that have a planet at just the right distance from the star to support life. And of that tiny fraction, it is incredibly unlikely that a precise and marvellously lucky collision occurred with another planet that was just enough to form an abnormally large moon but not destroy the planet, and so allowing stable seasons and gently cycling gravitational pulls.


1% of 1% of 1% of billions is still a pretty big number...
The problem is, of course, that not only is economics bankrupt, but it has always been nothing more than politics in disguise... economics is a form of brain damage.

Hazel Henderson
User avatar
Aaron
Resting in Peace
 
Posts: 5998
Joined: Thu 15 Apr 2004, 03:00:00
Location: Houston
Top

Re: Will Humans Discover That They Are Not Alone in the Univ

Unread postby EnergyUnlimited » Fri 24 Nov 2006, 09:04:31

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Daculling', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Niagara', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AWPrime', '
')1. No intelligent species would use radio waves to communicate with other starsystems, it is just too slow.

But radio waves, like all electromagnetic radiation, travel at the speed of light. What's faster?


Quantum entanglement.

Demonstrated to be USELESS for information sending.
Nature really hates to break causation principles.
User avatar
EnergyUnlimited
Light Sweet Crude
Light Sweet Crude
 
Posts: 7537
Joined: Mon 15 May 2006, 03:00:00
Top

Re: Will Humans Discover That They Are Not Alone in the Univ

Unread postby EnergyUnlimited » Fri 24 Nov 2006, 09:07:59

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AWPrime', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Niagara', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AWPrime', '
')1. No intelligent species would use radio waves to communicate with other starsystems, it is just too slow.

But radio waves, like all electromagnetic radiation, travel at the speed of light. What's faster?

Doesn't matter, it is still too slow.


It is fast enough to reach you, if sent from OUR Universe.
I hope you are not going to talk with Aliens via your mobile phone kiddie.
Are you?
User avatar
EnergyUnlimited
Light Sweet Crude
Light Sweet Crude
 
Posts: 7537
Joined: Mon 15 May 2006, 03:00:00
Top

Re: If Astronomers Detected a Signal from an Alien Civilizat

Unread postby EnergyUnlimited » Fri 24 Nov 2006, 09:16:02

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Battle_Scarred_Galactico', 'D')on't get your hopes up, the distances involved would take even light hundreds of thousands, even millions of years to travel.

I do not see any problem with that.
The signal from Aliens could be sent millions of years ago, when dinos were walking our Earth. And it could arrive today night...

Personally I do not believe, that there is much of intelligent life out there. One, perhaps very few civilizations per galaxy at most...and plenty of galaxies with none.

However I do believe that "there is a plenty of protoplasma around but noone to talk to".
User avatar
EnergyUnlimited
Light Sweet Crude
Light Sweet Crude
 
Posts: 7537
Joined: Mon 15 May 2006, 03:00:00
Top

Re: If Astronomers Detected a Signal from an Alien Civilizat

Unread postby EnergyUnlimited » Fri 24 Nov 2006, 09:31:01

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Omnitir', '
')And then there’s Fermi’s paradox. Any advanced civilization, even with space flight speeds equal to our own, has had enough time to colonise the entire galaxy long before we even evolved. If they exist, why can’t we see their galactic super-civilization?


Fermi paradox is not particularly difficult to debunk/deal with.
Below are few possibilities.

1. It is physically impossible (or prohibitively expensive) for any civilization made of any possible chemical set-up of life, to organize and execute interstellar tavel.
That mean that very few (if any at all) adventures like that had been successfully carried out and therefore we were never witnessing that.

2. Technological civilizations are so rare that any Galaxy harbouring one is very lucky (or unlucky according to our enviro guys).

3. Advanced civilizations show no interest in interstellar travel.

4. We are alone in Galaxy or may be in entire Universe.

5. We are ignored by peaceful, non conquering Aliens.
That may be their mistake. They should mass-nuke or seed with strangeletts or nanoprobes such a place like Earth to be safe themself in the future.
Just for their own sake.
User avatar
EnergyUnlimited
Light Sweet Crude
Light Sweet Crude
 
Posts: 7537
Joined: Mon 15 May 2006, 03:00:00
Top

Re: Will Humans Discover That They Are Not Alone in the Univ

Unread postby AWPrime » Fri 24 Nov 2006, 10:36:49

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EnergyUnlimited', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AWPrime', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Niagara', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AWPrime', '
')1. No intelligent species would use radio waves to communicate with other starsystems, it is just too slow.

But radio waves, like all electromagnetic radiation, travel at the speed of light. What's faster?

Doesn't matter, it is still too slow.

It is fast enough to reach you, if sent from OUR Universe.

I think you mean our galaxy, because this universe is a lot bigger.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') hope you are not going to talk with Aliens via your mobile phone.
Only a fool to try to communicate with anything if the reply takes over a thousand years. Are you a fool?
AWPrime
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 514
Joined: Thu 07 Jul 2005, 03:00:00
Location: Europe
Top

Re: Will Humans Discover That They Are Not Alone in the Univ

Unread postby EnergyUnlimited » Fri 24 Nov 2006, 11:26:10

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AWPrime', '
')I think you mean our galaxy, because this universe is a lot bigger.

False. I mean Universe.
If the signal is sent say from Andromeda Galaxy, we would receive it within 1.5 million of years.
We do not care, when the signal was sent, as long as we receive it.
The only problem is, that Aliens may NOT receive our reply (should we send it), as their civilization may no longer exist when our reply arrive there.
Neverhless by receiving a signal from arbitrary far away civilization we could prove their existance and retreive some information about them.
The only constraint is, that aliens MUST be within our Universe. If they are outside, their signal would NEVER arrive, unless some hypotethical topological deffects of spacetime are used to transmit. Those defects may not even exist.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') hope you are not going to talk with Aliens via your mobile phone.

Only a fool to try to communicate with anything if the reply takes over a thousand years. Are you a fool?

I had made sure about it, as you had given fool-like argument in your initial post, eg you assumed, that we will not receive signal because source is far away and no transmission speed will be good enough.

NB. Should aliens live around one of nearby stars (this is very unlikely), we would have to wait for reply only 10 years or so.
User avatar
EnergyUnlimited
Light Sweet Crude
Light Sweet Crude
 
Posts: 7537
Joined: Mon 15 May 2006, 03:00:00
Top

Re: Will Humans Discover That They Are Not Alone in the Univ

Unread postby AWPrime » Fri 24 Nov 2006, 11:33:20

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EnergyUnlimited', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AWPrime', '
')I think you mean our galaxy, because this universe is a lot bigger.

False. I mean Universe.

Then we would still be unable to communicate. Communication is more than just getting a signal.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'N')everhless by receiving a signal from arbitrary far away civilization we could prove their existance and retreive some information about them.

Alien commercials?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'N')B. Should aliens live around one of nearby stars (this is very unlikely), we would have to wait for reply only 10 years or so.

Everything close has already been checked out, no signs of intelligent radio signals from them.
AWPrime
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 514
Joined: Thu 07 Jul 2005, 03:00:00
Location: Europe
Top

Re: If Astronomers Detected a Signal from an Alien Civilizat

Unread postby Niagara » Fri 24 Nov 2006, 11:47:50

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EnergyUnlimited', 'P')ersonally I do not believe, that there is much of intelligent life out there.

I'm still looking for intelligent life here. :lol:
Remember: 73.3% of statistics are made up
and the other 23.6% are wrong
User avatar
Niagara
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 612
Joined: Thu 17 Aug 2006, 03:00:00
Location: Mt. Hubbert Scenic Lookout
Top

Re: Will Humans Discover That They Are Not Alone in the Univ

Unread postby EnergyUnlimited » Fri 24 Nov 2006, 11:49:00

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AWPrime', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EnergyUnlimited', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AWPrime', '
')I think you mean our galaxy, because this universe is a lot bigger.

False. I mean Universe.

Then we would still be unable to communicate. Communication is more than just getting a signal.

This would be one way communication.
Aliens send signal+we receive signal=existence of Aliens is proven and some information about them is retreived.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'N')everhless by receiving a signal from arbitrary far away civilization we could prove their existance and retreive some information about them.

Alien commercials?
I do not know, what are you trying to suggest here.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'N')B. Should aliens live around one of nearby stars (this is very unlikely), we would have to wait for reply only 10 years or so.
Everything close has already been checked out, no signs of intelligent radio signals from them.
Try imagine that they constructed sufficiently powerful transmitter and decided to send any signal only 2 years ago.
If they are 5 light years away we will receive their signal after 3 years from now on.
8 years from now they could receive our answer.
Last edited by EnergyUnlimited on Fri 24 Nov 2006, 11:51:30, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
EnergyUnlimited
Light Sweet Crude
Light Sweet Crude
 
Posts: 7537
Joined: Mon 15 May 2006, 03:00:00
Top

Re: If Astronomers Detected a Signal from an Alien Civilizat

Unread postby NEOPO » Fri 24 Nov 2006, 11:51:04

So sad.
So many people unable to think outside the box.
Thank you for keeping an open mind - you know who you are 8)

"The halls of science and all the lunatics committed there"
It is easier to enslave a people that wish to remain free then it is to free a people who wish to remain enslaved.
User avatar
NEOPO
Permanently Banned
 
Posts: 3588
Joined: Sun 15 May 2005, 03:00:00
Location: THE MATRIX

Next

Return to Open Topic Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests