Diesel or Gasoline?

by **grungerock** » Tue 15 Jun 2004, 10:05:25

Does the specialist that looks into peak oil 2008 consider the diesel as well as gasoline (petrol)? I assume that the demand for gasoline is heaps higher than diesel, and if that is the case, shouldn't there be an abundance of diesel?

by **OilBurner** » Tue 15 Jun 2004, 10:37:32

Diesel, gasoline, aviation fuel and lubricants are all by-products of the refining of oil.

Therefore, peak oil means peak everything. Besides, you'd be surprised just how much diesel is used, even in the US. In the UK, over 30% of all new cars sold are now diesel. In Europe that figure is even higher.

Don't expect there's lots of diesel around that nobody know's what to do with!!

by **dmtu** » Tue 15 Jun 2004, 10:44:41

http://www.howstuffworks.com/oil-refining4.htm

In short you can crack or unify hydrocarbons through catalyst and whatnot to be whatever form of fuel you want. that doesn't mean it's cheap. Our resident oil engineer said it would take some major refinery changes.

by **OilBurner** » Tue 15 Jun 2004, 10:50:12

Here's some preicse figures for US diesel usage:

http://www.eia.doe.gov/cneaf/alternate/ ... ble10.html

In summary, in 2002 3.3 times more petrol than diesel was consumed.

According to Chevron, they produce 1.9 times more petrol (ahem gasoline) than diesel:

http://www.chevron.com/about/pascagoula ... prod.shtml

That suggest that some companies contribute more diesel than others, or perhaps export it to diesel hungry Europe.

Here's a breakdown into what oil directly produces:

http://science.howstuffworks.com/oil-refining2.htm

You can adjust the percentage of each fraction of the distiling process (to meet demand) by re-processing other fractions that are not as in demand. Therefore if you need more gasoline then you can take excess diesel and turn that into gasoline using cracking, unification or alteration processes.

Believe me, they'll try and ensure not a drop of oil is wasted when there's profit involved.

by **smiley** » Tue 15 Jun 2004, 11:03:44

Peakoil especially applies to diesel and gasoline.

There are a number of different types of crude oil. They can be classified according to their gravity (heavy and light) and sulfur content (sweet and sour)

For making car fuels you preferably use light (easier to process), low-sulfur (environmental restrictions) crude.

I expect these types of oil to peak first, since you start develope the fields with the best quality of oil first.

As the refineries have to switch to lesser quality types of crude intake, the price of fuel will rise, due to the investments involved and the higher processing costs.

by **Mark_i** » Tue 15 Jun 2004, 11:09:43

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('OilBurner', 'D')iesel, gasoline, aviation fuel and lubricants are all by-products of the refining of oil.

Therefore, peak oil means peak everything. Besides, you'd be surprised just how much diesel is used, even in the US. In the UK, over 30% of all new cars sold are now diesel. In Europe that figure is even higher.

Don't expect there's lots of diesel around that nobody know's what to do with!!

by **Licho** » Tue 15 Jun 2004, 11:18:43

I can only add to this, that in Czechia, energy consumed by economy (not only transportation) derived from diesel is 5.5x more than from petrol (55PJ vs. 10PJ). So I guess that all oil products are used and consumed by economy, it's not dumped to sea :-)

Peak oil is likely to affect all oil products to similar extent..

by **dmtu** » Tue 15 Jun 2004, 11:25:38

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('OilBurner', 'H')ere's a breakdown into what oil directly produces:

http://science.howstuffworks.com/oil-refining2.htm

by **OilBurner** » Tue 15 Jun 2004, 11:46:53

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Mark_i', '
')
believe it or not, but the UK is geographically as well as politically a part of Europe :lol:

by **Licho** » Tue 15 Jun 2004, 12:16:18

Offtopic:
very different? I didn't see anything different besides driving on opposite side and still using some crazy units (lb for example) :-)

Oh yes, and really weird seperated hot and cold water taps in some houses :-)

I thought that UK is part of Europe too, but if you feel more like independent island (34km (21m) away from mainland btw) so be it :-)

Cyprus or Malta do feel to belong to Europe despite being Islands and further away from mainland.

by **Aaron** » Tue 15 Jun 2004, 12:19:53

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')'d like to see a long list that categorizes use into percentages, from jet fuel to medicine.

by **Barbara** » Tue 15 Jun 2004, 12:26:26

Licho and Mark,
don't bother british citizens. You should know they feel they are a State of the USA! :twisted:

by **hymalaia** » Tue 15 Jun 2004, 13:02:25

according to that map, northern Iraq is also a part of Europe! Who knew? :wink:

by **Pops** » Tue 15 Jun 2004, 14:23:07

Wait a minute! Iraq belongs to the US!

by **Licho** » Tue 15 Jun 2004, 19:54:30

Europe, in our sense Europe ends with Ural, Caspian sea, Caucasus, Black sea, Mediterranean sea, Gibraltar.
So neither Turkey nor Iraq are in Europe.
On the other side, islands like Iceland or Ireland belong to Europe.

by **Ayoob** » Thu 16 Sep 2004, 12:34:43

I've decided to sell my motorcycle and use the proceeds to pick up a mid-80's Merc diesel. I'm then going to install a SVO kit on it, and maybe a propane tank if I can get one to fit. I could also go with the Chevy Suburban if the propane can't be fit to the engine. I hear the propanes can only be used with American diesels for some reason.

Anyway, the idea is to wean myself off petroleum products starting now so I'll be a little less affected by the increasing price of gasoline. Even if gas gets to $20 a gallon I'll be able to continue with my business. My market isn't going away any time soon, either.

by **JackBob** » Thu 16 Sep 2004, 12:35:42

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ayoob', 'I')'ve decided to sell my motorcycle and use the proceeds to pick up a mid-80's Merc diesel. I'm then going to install a SVO kit on it, and maybe a propane tank if I can get one to fit. I could also go with the Chevy Suburban if the propane can't be fit to the engine. I hear the propanes can only be used with American diesels for some reason.

Anyway, the idea is to wean myself off petroleum products starting now so I'll be a little less affected by the increasing price of gasoline. Even if gas gets to $20 a gallon I'll be able to continue with my business. My market isn't going away any time soon, either.

by **gnm** » Thu 16 Sep 2004, 12:49:34

SVO=straight vegetable oil - there are several companies which sell kits that have integrated heating elements and fuel lines to deliver the vegetable oil at the correct temperature/viscosity for a diesel engine. Very clever and a lot easier to fuel than making your own biodiesel....

-G

by **JackBob** » Thu 16 Sep 2004, 15:23:57

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gnm', 'S')VO=straight vegetable oil - there are several companies which sell kits that have integrated heating elements and fuel lines to deliver the vegetable oil at the correct temperature/viscosity for a diesel engine. Very clever and a lot easier to fuel than making your own biodiesel....

-G

by **JackBob** » Thu 16 Sep 2004, 15:24:40

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JackBob', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gnm', 'S')VO=straight vegetable oil - there are several companies which sell kits that have integrated heating elements and fuel lines to deliver the vegetable oil at the correct temperature/viscosity for a diesel engine. Very clever and a lot easier to fuel than making your own biodiesel....

-G

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