[Micki]

If we assume a doomerish scenario, I think many younger, especially city kids/teenagers, will cave in.
When things start going down hill, they are not going to pick up a spade and move to the country side and start planting potatoes.

Especially as long as politicians and organisations keep hiding the reasons for the decline. This will keep people waiting for "a fix" rather than realising that they have to take matters into their own hands.

The decline will therefore first involve financial depression, increased gang activity, increase of slum, kids getting into glue sniffing or what ever cheap stuff they can get their hands on etc. before really going down hill.
Lots of people will wake up dead or in detention centres before realising what they should do (have done).

Those who are aware and can see the signs and prepare will however have a huge advantage.

I saw this interesting documentary from Ethiopia.
It showed how people were starving in one place and relying on aid and only 1-2 hundred kilometres away they had nice farms and full stomachs.
They didn't really try to explain it but my feeling was that
1) many starving just don't know where to go or what to do so they just stay put.
2) they are not welcome in the established areas. Most agrable land has already been taken by someone and they are not intent on making arrangements for new comers.

And look at just about any place where tere are poor people.
Like the favelas (spelling?) outside Rio. These people choose to stay in slum rather than moving to the country side.

[AgentR]

OP, relax. Lots of people here are politically motivated for something to happen REAL REAL fast, as a driver to achieve other, tangential issues.

If you're worried about peak in your lifetime, and I would be, and are a math/science person, I'd look at some of the engineering fields that get you hands on time with heavy tools. The experience scales both up and down. If I were late teens in these times, I'd definately have gone Mech E. instead of math. [not to say the math hasn't served me quite well in my own time.]

In any event, think of it as an engineering challenge all on its own. What could be more interesting than tackling a problem where your own life hangs in the balance.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Heineken', 'A')lthough he can still probably outmuscle most teenagers, Farmer Heineken is getting creaky at 51 and can see the writing on the wall. Strength per se isn't the issue so much as flexibility, endurance, and ability to heal quickly from the small injuries that frequently plague anyone who works on the land.

[TheTurtle]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Heineken', 'A')lthough he can still probably outmuscle most teenagers, Farmer Heineken is getting creaky at 51 and can see the writing on the wall. Strength per se isn't the issue so much as flexibility, endurance, and ability to heal quickly from the small injuries that frequently plague anyone who works on the land.

[Heineken]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AgentR', ' ')I'm over 40 now, and stronger than I've ever been, but there's no way I could run a six minute mile, and I'm starting to notice my endurance slipping, grrrrr. This result is too common to be anything other than a correct, natural adaptation.

[gg3]

Django:

Re. science & math: If your teachers at highschool can't handle the material, do this:

If you're planning to go to a 4-year college or university, always have some math and science in your schedule.

Question: what are your academic interests, and do you have any idea what you would major in? And/or what are your interests re. employment? And/or what are your hobby interests? All of this stuff is relevant to figuring out the best approach to preparedness.

If you're not planning for 4-year college/university, then go to the local community college anyway and take relevant courses. Community colleges also have vocational & technical stuff that is of value in this context, and costs are low. This is not about getting a degree from a prestigious institution, it's simply about learning the material in a practical manner.

Otherwise, buy up old college textbooks at any decent used book store in a college town. Yes, I'm serious, read this stuff in your spare time and learn the material.

Re. community: If the folks in your area are not interested, find people who are. You have the time you will need in order to do this correctly, find the right group, and avoid getting involved with the wrong crowd. Search under "sustainable communities" and "intentional communities."

Some things to avoid: Charismatic leaders, i.e. cultish situations. Any situation involving sex with people older than your peer group. Any group that appears to have a lot of heavy drinkers or druggies around. Any group that advocates illegal acts beyond the level of peaceful protests and sit-ins. Any group where decision making processes are not democratic or participatory. Any group that has a "don't ask questions" attitude. Any group in which it appears that your primary function will be to spend long hours raising money for them (these are often cults). Any group that does not respect your personal privacy.

Some things to look for that are positives: Democratic decision making. Good business planning and sound finances. Respect for individual members, including their personal privacy. Commitment to being law-abiding. Openness to being asked tough questions. Open-mindedness generally, i.e. no dogma. Belief system seems common-sense and well-grounded in verifiable facts.

Note, you'll often see discussions on these boards about self-defense issues for example involving firearms. Read carefully and learn how to discern the difference between people who are basically law-abiding and discussing self-defense against criminals, vs. people who have an outlaw or rebel attitude and could end up engaging in criminal behavior themselves. The former are OK, the latter are not.

Note, there are a lot of grownups around whose attitudes are screwed up as a result of whatever bad experiences they have had in life. This is not specific to PO and sustainability groups or even to survivalists or whatever; this is generic about grownups as a whole. They deserve a certain amount of sympathy, but you as a kid should not have to deal with their grownup head-trips and problems. Don't let grownups project or otherwise impose their troubles on you. Seek out people who have healthy attitudes or who at least are willing to respect you as an individual and respect the proper boundaries in relating to you.

There are also a lot of people who are almost in your peer group, i.e. 20-something age group, who have discovered various political and other philosophies, and who end up believing that they have found The Answer and get stuck in a dogmatic groove. You'll see a lot of this in college particularly with Marxists, Anarchists, and Neocons. Don't confuse their enthusiasm with empirical validity, i.e. just because they are enthusiastic and believe something strongly, does not mean that it is true; in fact it might be total rubbish. The same case applies to religion or any other belief system.

Generally speaking, think for yourself and stand up for your ideas and for your ability to reason. Don't succumb to social pressures either from peers or from self-proclaimed experts. If someone has a logical case to make, that's one thing, but if they can't make their case, or if they're just attempting to use social pressure, ignore it and stick to what you know from your own experience. Ask questions relentlessly and don't take BS for an answer.

You've gotten this far, you've obviously got a good head on your shoulders, and it's highly likely you'll do OK in the long run. Stay in touch on this board, over time you'll run into people who can be helpful, and you might run into some peers in your area who you can hook up with.

And of course when out on the internet, never give out personal information particularly your physical address. If you arrange to meet individuals, meet them in public places during daytime hours and stick to public places until you know them well, and make sure someone knows where you are going and who you are meeting. If someone wants to talk by phone, get their number and call them, using caller ID blocking when you call (look up the feature code in the front of the white pages in your local phone book). Get to know people well before you start trusting them with personal information; it's always OK to talk about ideas and current events and philosophy and so on, but not OK to disclose information that a badguy could use to cause trouble. All of this probably sounds like the lecture your parents give you about going online but it's sound advice to prevent getting taken advantage of in one way or another. Sorry if some of this sounds paranoid, but we are living in "interesting times", and being careful is one of the keys to dealing with this century successfully.

[Faustus]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'Y')ou'll see a lot of this in college particularly with Marxists, Anarchists, and Neocons. Don't confuse their enthusiasm with empirical validity, i.e. just because they are enthusiastic and believe something strongly, does not mean that it is true; in fact it might be total rubbish.

[mmasters]

Lot of good advice, I would say most of all figure out who you are and what type of things you love to do. Then pick a practical direction to take your life in based on the inside information you know (peak oil). Definitely don't bother with sociology, liberal arts and such. There are very few career paths that will actually exist in the real world for your age group, make sure you're in something that has a future so you have a future.

The world is a hard tough place right now and it's only gonna get worse. I myself never had a clue what the working world was like even when I was in college (I was so idealistic about it). And keep in mind as long as you're in school it's what you know that's matters most but once you get into the working world it's who you know that matters most. People that get far in the world today do so because they know somebody. For every 1 guy that plays by the rules and goes the straight and narrow path and gets to the top there's 99 people who know somebody and get to the same place. Learn to network.

[Atlantean_Relic]

You might get lucky and be one of the first carted off to war and killed quickly.

[AgentR]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Atlantean_Relic', 'Y')ou might get lucky and be one of the first carted off to war and killed quickly.

[mekrob]

I know how you feel buddy. I'm 19 (almost 20) and I go to UNC.

I've gone through my "I hope all of the old people die" phase and am now focusing on what I can do. I wouldn't go into a college unless you have the money up front. Universities are simply too expensive and alot of wasted time. It's much better to simply go to a CC where you can still get some instruction, but you will have direction as well for self-studies (so much easier, at least for me).

Knowing science and math is pretty essential. Knowledge of organic chemistry, anatomy and physiology, differential equations and calculus are pretty essential to making it fairly off post peak. All of those have tremendous uses. The first for farming, second just to keep care of yourself and in the old days, knowledge of basic diff eq qualified you as a rudimetnary engineer, which will be greatly needed in the future.

Don't focus on the past. Sieze the opportunities ahead of you. Despite all that will happen, and I hate to say it, but there are plenty of opportunities (and fortunes) to be made, even in a major depression.

Take myself for example. I'm studying Arabic and am going for a reservoir engineering degree. Both will have secure, high-paid jobs, even in the future.

[gg3]

AgentR has a good point there. Now that we're no longer a One-Party State, and going to be changing course in Iraq, the military is once again a potentially highly satisfying career option.

The folks at OCS say everyone wants to do MI because they think of it as James Bond. That's truly funny. Anyway, pick an MOS that matches your interests, but understand you may not get first choice if something goes hot somewhere in the world.

One of the cool things about the military is it's like being in school forever (with combat rotations). You can keep learning all your life. And they can train you to do the most complex tasks virtually by reflex.

For that reason, our community planning group is very much looking for people who've been in the military and took their training seriously. As a friend put it tonight, "those guys can take a complex machine apart down to the last nut and bolt in their sleep, and put it back together again before they wake up." The can-do attitude plus the practical knowhow, will go a long way in this century.

[edpeak]

" There are days I feel like walking around my neighborhood, knocking on doors, and yelling at all the people alive during the last 30 years and scream at them. "

Remember the corporate media set the terms of the
debate trying to divide and conquer, pitting one group
against the other...and stereotyping every group...

Those folks you feel like screaming at who hav ebeen alive?
Many of them have been busting their asses trying to fight
against PO against GW against the corporate machine that bred
them, during those exact same years...they are your brothers
and sisters doing what you would have wanted them to do
but you couldn't do youself because you were a child or baby or
not born.

Yeah, the others in society were blind, sometimes willfully
so, ...........so maybe THOSE people over 30 should
be screamed at, but they are just the same as the majority
who are 17 years old, the blind/ignorant 17 year olds..where
do you think the blink/ignorant 30+ year olds came from? And
I'm not sure screaming helps...though I DO think
you have every right to feel like screaming at "The world"
which is how many of us feel.....great advice by others
here about what to do with the rage and despair
and how to use them in the best most constructive
way...another constructive thing is to do what you're
doing right here by seeking solidarity with like minded
folks in a spirit of community and mutual aid (worth
googling for that term

Peace and keep caring...it's the only way to stay
human rather than turn into the 'living dead' that
the mass culture wants to turn us into...those
folks have less despare of the kind we have but they
don't have much of a meaningful life...

[rogerhb]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('django', 'B')ut me? I've got at least 50 more years.

[Revi]

Listen, it's hard being a teenager whatever the situation is. At least you know what's going on. The good stuff is always at the end of the movie. Stay tuned for some interesting twists and turns. It's been very interesting the past five years. The old humdrum life in suburbia lacks drama. This next 5 or 10 years is going to be a thrill ride. And you are in the prime of life for it. It'll be like an adventure movie, but way more real. Don't worry, the happy ending can still happen. You have knowledge of peak oil, so you are way ahead of most people your age.

[Atlantean_Relic]

I'm all for being around to rebuild after TSHTF. What I'll be building depends on what I've got and what I might need.

[Stratovarius]

To OP:

Hey I'm about to turn 16 and I see where you're coming from. Lots of good advice has been given here, listen to it.

The best advice I can give you right now is...wear a condom. No seriously, you're life will be ruined 100000x times over if you get someone pregnant in this day and age.

I advise you to get two books, it'll be worth your time trust me. Life will seem clearer after you read them.

"The Consolations of Philosophy" by Alain de Botton
"Ecce Homo" by Friedrich Nietzsche

Read them. Love them.

[Heineken]

And for a further clue, don't forget "The Sorrows of Empire," by Chalmers Johnson. And "Your Erroneous Zones," by Wayne Dyer (who has since sold out, but that doesn't change the simple brilliance of that book). And "Your Money or Your Life." The list of essential books could go on . . . and on.

I have read too many books.

They help, but they are not the answer.

There was a time when I would have chuckled at the idea of a 15-year old advising us on how to live.

But I've since learned better.

Because there is no answer.

[Pretorian]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('django', 'R')emember that article that Zardoz posted about ecologists trying to fight depression? Well, it mentioned how most of the doomers are upper-middle age or even elderly, like Suzuki or Lovelock and then it just sort of trails off when it talks about the younger generation. Well, I can tell you what it's like being 17 and facing PO/GW.

IT FUCKING SUCKS.

What the hell does Lovelock have to care about regarding Gaia's revenge on humans? The man is nearing his 90's! He's in the twilight of his life and he'll have gone into that good night before it even starts. But me? I've got at least 50 more years.

I mean, think about Reagan! He got elected, appointed members of his cabinet that did enough damage to the environment to give E.O. Wilson nightmares for the rest of his life, and then got Alzheimers and died at the age of 94. What a undeservingly good life that man got! He spent 8 years as president, spent the next 6 years being hailed as the greatest conservative president ever and then, before anyone with a scrap of info regarding global warming can get to him, he starts degrading into a dumb, blissful state of unaware. Lucky him.

I feel as though people owe me an apology. You know how people talk about environmental destruction and how it will affect "our children"? Well, that's all fine, but they never say it to our face. They talk about it like a Ms. America talks about how bad it is that people are starving while doing little or nothing to do anything about it. The sentiment is "Oh, what a shame". But now, "the children" i.e. myself now KNOW about this. There are days I feel like walking around my neighborhood, knocking on doors, and yelling at all the people alive during the last 30 years and scream at them.

I even had dreams of relatively simple living. I would get a job as a music teacher, live in the city, never using a car, and making a moderate income, buying vegetarian organic and all that. But it seems to be coming to a close.

This is awful.

[Revi]

"I even had dreams of relatively simple living. I would get a job as a music teacher, live in the city, never using a car, and making a moderate income, buying vegetarian organic and all that. But it seems to be coming to a close. " Django, at the beginning of this thread.

Hey, that dream is doable, post peak. There have been music teachers since the beginning of time. The fact that you want to live a simple life is completely doable. That dream is very possible. Why not? We are going to need some music!

[Stratovarius]

Indeed Pretorian.

I feel bad for all the old people who have tought times ahead.

Congrats django, you are a teenager.