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The Greatest Sin of the Church

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The Greatest Sin of the Church

Unread postby MD » Sun 05 Nov 2006, 04:57:13

May be the creation of the corporate entity.

Was it not a Dutch monk that invented the corporate entity that unleashed the great planet eating Beast that we see finishing it's task today?

Too add a fun twist, could the Church have done so in order to expedite John's Revelation?
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Re: The Greatest Sin of the Church

Unread postby rogerhb » Sun 05 Nov 2006, 05:24:35

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MD', '.').. that unleashed the great planet eating Beast that we see finishing it's task today?


Not, you mean, the Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal?
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Re: The Greatest Sin of the Church

Unread postby MD » Sun 05 Nov 2006, 06:03:01

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rogerhb', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MD', '.').. that unleashed the great planet eating Beast that we see finishing it's task today?


Not, you mean, the Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal?


I followed your link with great anticipation, which turned into great disappointment.

The name turned out to be the only fun part.
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Re: The Greatest Sin of the Church

Unread postby bobcousins » Sun 05 Nov 2006, 07:21:07

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MD', 'M')ay be the creation of the corporate entity.

Was it not a Dutch monk that invented the corporate entity that unleashed the great planet eating Beast that we see finishing it's task today?


No, I don't think it was. Do you have any citations??

The corporation in some form has been around a long time, and there doesn't appear to be a singular moment when it was "invented". Arguably the first commerical corporations were created by governments.* As an atheist I have no problem blaming the Church, but in this case the evidence is thin.

I agree though that the corporation is our most effective means to date of exploiting the planet. However it is a synergy of two key human characteristics - greed and cooperation. Greed gives us the incentive to invest to get a profit, and is the reason behind those driven individuals who generally lead corporations. Cooperation gives us the ability to create technology and harness it through social organisations such as the corporation, as well as public institutions (government).

Placing blame may be fun, but is pretty futile IMHO. Where to draw the line? Perhaps you can blame agriculture for allowing us to settle and create empires. Perhaps you can blame evolution for giving us a freaky brain. Perhaps you should blame the Laws of the Universe for creating the Carbon atom, which has just the right properties for creating an infinite array of complicated molecules (I refer to DNA etc here, not oil).

* According to Wikipedia :wink:
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Re: The Greatest Sin of the Church

Unread postby EndDays » Sun 05 Nov 2006, 10:12:50

Following Christ is about a relationship, not doing rituals in an organized manner on Sunday.

That's the saddest part, because God has given us this awesome free gift in His Son, but many have been turned off because of what organized religion has done.

I'm not a religious person at all.

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Re: The Greatest Sin of the Church

Unread postby MD » Sun 05 Nov 2006, 10:16:52

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('bobcousins', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MD', 'M')ay be the creation of the corporate entity.

Was it not a Dutch monk that invented the corporate entity that unleashed the great planet eating Beast that we see finishing it's task today?


No, I don't think it was. Do you have any citations??

The corporation in some form has been around a long time, and there doesn't appear to be a singular moment when it was "invented". Arguably the first commerical corporations were created by governments.* As an atheist I have no problem blaming the Church, but in this case the evidence is thin.

I agree though that the corporation is our most effective means to date of exploiting the planet. However it is a synergy of two key human characteristics - greed and cooperation. Greed gives us the incentive to invest to get a profit, and is the reason behind those driven individuals who generally lead corporations. Cooperation gives us the ability to create technology and harness it through social organisations such as the corporation, as well as public institutions (government).

Placing blame may be fun, but is pretty futile IMHO. Where to draw the line? Perhaps you can blame agriculture for allowing us to settle and create empires. Perhaps you can blame evolution for giving us a freaky brain. Perhaps you should blame the Laws of the Universe for creating the Carbon atom, which has just the right properties for creating an infinite array of complicated molecules (I refer to DNA etc here, not oil).

* According to Wikipedia :wink:


No citations, thus the question. I remember it as a passing comment from ECON101 many moons ago. Memory could be faulty.

If there is any basis to the claim, somebody less lazy than I will have to dig it out.

Agreed on the futility of the blame game, thus leaving fun as the only reason for the post.
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Re: The Greatest Sin of the Church

Unread postby MD » Sun 05 Nov 2006, 10:31:40

Curiousity has partially overcome laziness, at least long enough for a quick google.

"The oldest corporation in the world is the Stora Kopparberg mining community in Falun, Sweden.It was granted a charter from King Magnus Eriksson in 1347."

No reference to who came up with the idea of the corporate entity in the first place.
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Re: The Greatest Sin of the Church

Unread postby PenultimateManStanding » Sun 05 Nov 2006, 13:13:46

Damn that King Magnus Erikkson! Damn him to hell!
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Re: The Greatest Sin of the Church

Unread postby MD » Sun 05 Nov 2006, 13:28:37

A mining company, no less!

figures
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Re: The Greatest Sin of the Church

Unread postby threadbear » Sun 05 Nov 2006, 15:49:21

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EndDays', 'F')ollowing Christ is about a relationship, not doing rituals in an organized manner on Sunday.

That's the saddest part, because God has given us this awesome free gift in His Son, but many have been turned off because of what organized religion has done.

I'm not a religious person at all.

ED


If you're all for Jesus, get out and protest the current regime, as he would have. Go on. Overturn the money changer's tables. And don't just render unto Ceasar. Render Ceasar by starving the coporate beast. Embargo, dude. Put your money where your mouth is.
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Re: The Greatest Sin of the Church

Unread postby MD » Sun 05 Nov 2006, 15:51:12

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EndDays', 'F')ollowing Christ is about a relationship, not doing rituals in an organized manner on Sunday.

That's the saddest part, because God has given us this awesome free gift in His Son, but many have been turned off because of what organized religion has done.

I'm not a religious person at all.

ED


If you're all for Jesus, get out and protest the current regime, as he would have. Go on. Overturn the money changer's tables. And don't just render unto Ceasar. Render Ceasar by starving the coporate beast. Embargo, dude. Put your money where your mouth is.


amen and all that
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Re: The Greatest Sin of the Church

Unread postby EndDays » Sun 05 Nov 2006, 22:24:52

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EndDays', 'F')ollowing Christ is about a relationship, not doing rituals in an organized manner on Sunday.

That's the saddest part, because God has given us this awesome free gift in His Son, but many have been turned off because of what organized religion has done.

I'm not a religious person at all.

ED


If you're all for Jesus, get out and protest the current regime, as he would have. Go on. Overturn the money changer's tables. And don't just render unto Ceasar. Render Ceasar by starving the coporate beast. Embargo, dude. Put your money where your mouth is.


Don't you think its a bit difficult to ascertain what someone does and doesn't do over the internet?

As for what you said, Jesus isn't a politician. He's our Creator and He came to warn the world to repent and died for our sins.

Just like the Jews in the time of Christ, we live in a system governed by fallible people but they're only in power because God has allowed it to be so.

"Jesus answered (Pilate), "You would have no power over me if it had not been given to you from above." (John 19:11)

In a world filled with sin that includes you and I as well. So the battle to defeat sin is not our calling. As a Christian I'm to love my neighbour and proclaim the good news of Salvation through Jesus Christ to all people, even the hardest of criminals. Jesus defeated death and paid for sin on the cross. That is who Jesus is, what He did and where the battle was won.

The same Jesus who loves us, died for us, and is sitting on the right hand of power right now.

ED
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Re: The Greatest Sin of the Church

Unread postby threadbear » Sun 05 Nov 2006, 23:35:01

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EndDays', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EndDays', 'F')ollowing Christ is about a relationship, not doing rituals in an organized manner on Sunday.

That's the saddest part, because God has given us this awesome free gift in His Son, but many have been turned off because of what organized religion has done.

I'm not a religious person at all.

ED


If you're all for Jesus, get out and protest the current regime, as he would have. Go on. Overturn the money changer's tables. And don't just render unto Ceasar. Render Ceasar by starving the coporate beast. Embargo, dude. Put your money where your mouth is.


Don't you think its a bit difficult to ascertain what someone does and doesn't do over the internet?

As for what you said, Jesus isn't a politician. He's our Creator and He came to warn the world to repent and died for our sins.

Just like the Jews in the time of Christ, we live in a system governed by fallible people but they're only in power because God has allowed it to be so.

"Jesus answered (Pilate), "You would have no power over me if it had not been given to you from above." (John 19:11)

In a world filled with sin that includes you and I as well. So the battle to defeat sin is not our calling. As a Christian I'm to love my neighbour and proclaim the good news of Salvation through Jesus Christ to all people, even the hardest of criminals. Jesus defeated death and paid for sin on the cross. That is who Jesus is, what He did and where the battle was won.

The same Jesus who loves us, died for us, and is sitting on the right hand of power right now.

ED


Sounds like a series of excuses to sit on your sanctimonious ass and do nothing to confront evil. Christ confronted commercial interests that subverted the spiritual life of the temple, and took on the entire orthodoxy of Judaism, in his day.

Perhaps Christ WAS the son of God. I'll grant you that. He was also the living embodiment of anarchism. Were he alive today, he'd have dreadlocks, live in a tree near Eugene Oregon, take on Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell and boycott MacDonalds.

Christianity demands that we be heroic, sometimes, and meek at other times. This isn't the time to be grovelling for forgiveness. Get up off your knees, Man!
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Re: The Greatest Sin of the Church

Unread postby MD » Mon 06 Nov 2006, 04:57:55

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', '.')..... Christ confronted commercial interests that subverted the spiritual life of the temple, and took on the entire orthodoxy of Judaism, in his day...

He was also the living embodiment of anarchism. Were he alive today, he'd have dreadlocks, live in a tree near Eugene Oregon, take on Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell and boycott MacDonalds.

Christianity demands that we be heroic, sometimes, and meek at other times....

Get up off your knees, Man!


Thank you! Thank you! Thank you again! And finally, thank you!

If the church wakes up and emulates that Jesus, the future changes in a big way.
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Re: The Greatest Sin of the Church

Unread postby TheTurtle » Mon 06 Nov 2006, 10:04:24

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', 'P')erhaps Christ WAS the son of God. I'll grant you that. He was also the living embodiment of anarchism. Were he alive today, he'd have dreadlocks, live in a tree near Eugene Oregon, take on Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell and boycott MacDonalds.


I couldn't agree more, Threadbear. A most excellent summation! Most people who call themselves Christians would be appalled by Christ if he were with us today.

But that long haired anarchist would be OK with me. :-D
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Re: The Greatest Sin of the Church

Unread postby Kfish » Mon 06 Nov 2006, 21:52:49

In the context of PO, I think the greatest problem that Judeo-Christian culture has created is the 'cornucopian' mindset embodied in Genesis 1.

God creates the Earth for humankind's dominion, and then tells them to 'go forth and multiply'.

I really don't know whether this is simply an embodiment of an earlier cornucopian mentality, or whether other religions promote this idea as well, but it's provided theological justification for raping the planet ever since.
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Re: The Greatest Sin of the Church

Unread postby max_power29 » Tue 07 Nov 2006, 05:45:17

The corporation was invented to dodge liabilty and cut the costs of externalities, thereby increasing profits immensley more than a regular business like a partnership, where all partners bear liabilty for their actions. Yes, allowing the corporation to become a legal, legal entity was a huge mistake.

No i don't think religion invented it, but oraganised religion was anouther huge mistake
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Re: The Greatest Sin of the Church

Unread postby MD » Tue 07 Nov 2006, 06:12:06

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Kfish', 'I')n the context of PO, I think the greatest problem that Judeo-Christian culture has created is the 'cornucopian' mindset embodied in Genesis 1.

God creates the Earth for humankind's dominion, and then tells them to 'go forth and multiply'.

I really don't know whether this is simply an embodiment of an earlier cornucopian mentality, or whether other religions promote this idea as well, but it's provided theological justification for raping the planet ever since.


what a bunch of pure bullshit
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Re: The Greatest Sin of the Church

Unread postby MD » Tue 07 Nov 2006, 06:14:14

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('max_power29', 'T')he corporation was invented to dodge liabilty and cut the costs of externalities, thereby increasing profits immensley more than a regular business like a partnership, where all partners bear liabilty for their actions. Yes, allowing the corporation to become a legal, legal entity was a huge mistake.

No i don't think religion invented it, but oraganised religion was anouther huge mistake


Nobody said religion invented the corporation. A monk in northern europe is said to have invented the concept.
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