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PeakOil is You

PeakOil is You

I want a dog.

Discussions related to the physiological and psychological effects of peak oil on our members and future generations.

Re: I want a dog.

Unread postby Wednesday » Tue 15 Aug 2006, 19:51:12

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('elocs', 'T')hey gave away 2 cats when they developed UTIs.


Ugh. That just makes me angry. See my earlier post about my smart cat who collaborated with me in the treatment of her own UTI. She lived to a ripe old age.
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Re: I want a dog.

Unread postby elocs » Tue 15 Aug 2006, 20:22:33

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Wednesday', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('elocs', 'T')hey gave away 2 cats when they developed UTIs.


Ugh. That just makes me angry. See my earlier post about my smart cat who collaborated with me in the treatment of her own UTI. She lived to a ripe old age.


These were male cats and I think they also had a problem with the sediment in the urine that would block them up. This is one reason that I prefer female cats.
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Re: I want a dog.

Unread postby django » Tue 15 Aug 2006, 20:39:52

I got a dog about 6 months ago, right about the time my PO knowledge got really thick and doomerish and I have to tell you, it's been quite a joy to have her. She's a Schnoodle (schnauzer/poodle) and unbelievably smart.

It's incredible what it does to my moralle in life. My family was never on bad terms, but with the dog, we fight less and get less stressed out. My father loves her to death; it saves him from his brooding and sarcasm he sometimes imposes on my family. I also get time to relate to my mother and sister better when I have the dog.

It's definately an upgrade in a pre-post-carbon world.
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Re: I want a dog.

Unread postby elocs » Tue 15 Aug 2006, 20:45:34

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('django', 'I') got a dog about 6 months ago, right about the time my PO knowledge got really thick and doomerish and I have to tell you, it's been quite a joy to have her. She's a Schnoodle (schnauzer/poodle) and unbelievably smart.

It's incredible what it does to my moralle in life. My family was never on bad terms, but with the dog, we fight less and get less stressed out. My father loves her to death; it saves him from his brooding and sarcasm he sometimes imposes on my family. I also get time to relate to my mother and sister better when I have the dog.

It's definately an upgrade in a pre-post-carbon world.


Congratulations! I am happy to hear of your good results. Best of luck to you, your family, and your dog.
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Re: I want a dog.

Unread postby lateralus » Fri 01 Sep 2006, 13:06:05

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('catbox', 'F')our cats here....the oldest being 16 and still looking good. We want a dog and have ample space, but money-wise it would not be smart for us....it's tough cause dogs are such great friends! Also, the 16 year old cat tends to attack dogs! Maybe when old fooley the cat is gone....we'll get a dog...still...another mouth to feed.

What can you do?


catbox


I have four cats also, plus a dog, she loves the cats to death. Dog's are great alarm systems I've learned. She even woke us up just before an earthquake started shaking our bed. Damn cats were sleeping through it all. :P
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Re: I want a dog.

Unread postby Pablo2079 » Fri 27 Oct 2006, 00:39:14

dogs will keep you warm too..... the saying a "three dog night" had to come from somewhere!
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Re: I want a dog.

Unread postby gego » Fri 27 Oct 2006, 02:35:06

As for a dose of reality, if peak oil hits and human food becomes scarce enough to cause a dieoff, what do you think will happen to dogs (and other pets)?

I imagine some people will let their dogs loose to fend for themselves when they cannot afford or even get sufficient food for the humans in the family. Already in the countryside occasionally people dump dogs and sometimes these get in packs and can be dangerous to both humans and livestock. I have never had to kill any myself, but know of people who have. I think this will be an increasing problem post peak.

In the right environment dogs can be very beneficial post peak, but I can also imagine that keeping dogs just as pets might come under pressure. Too bad, as they are such wonderful companions.

If interested in dogs as pets, you might want to see the Dog Whisperer show with Caesar Milan. It is on the National Geographic channel and is remarkable.
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Re: I want a dog.

Unread postby BlisteredWhippet » Fri 27 Oct 2006, 04:04:00

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Wednesday', 'L')ately I've been craving that sort of companionship that only comes from a good old mutt dog.


Gross. :lol:

Anyway, why are you posting this here? You can get an old mutt dog anywhere. Try craigslist. Are we supposed to vet (no pun intended) your taste in type of mutt?

Or do you want a personal opinion on whether or not to own a dog.

Let me put it this way: a dog owns you.

If you like following a dog around holding a sack of shit, and think this is some kind of lifestyle improvement, get a dog.

If you like countless hours wasted teaching the dog this and that, get a dog.

If you like having hair and dirt and a smelly house and dog shit all over the lawn, get a dog.

If you like barking or spending hours teaching a dog not to bark and this is your idea of "companionship", get a dog.

In other words, if you're stuck someplace you're just waiting to leave and don't really care about, and you can't find human companionship or some articulated appreciation of the solitary life, of communion with nature, or just need to cuddle with a warm, hairy animal that licks your face and digs holes in the yard and farts,


GET A DOG !!!
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Re: I want a dog.

Unread postby threadbear » Fri 27 Oct 2006, 15:25:58

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BlisteredWhippet', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Wednesday', 'L')ately I've been craving that sort of companionship that only comes from a good old mutt dog.


or just need to cuddle with a warm, hairy animal that licks your face and digs holes in the yard and farts,


GET A DOG !!!


Most women are married to big hairy animals that fart. A dog is for people who want unconditional love, both given and recieved. :lol:
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Re: I want a dog.

Unread postby lateStarter » Fri 27 Oct 2006, 17:29:19

Please go to your local animal shelter ASAP and get some dogs and a few cats. Believe me, they will give you much more pleasure and lots less hassle than your closest relatives and neighbors.

A couple of big dogs may save your ass in the near future!!! Cats are great for keeping the rodents at bay....
We have been brought into the present condition in which we are unable neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them. - Livy
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Re: I want a dog.

Unread postby coyote » Sun 29 Oct 2006, 21:36:22

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gego', 'A')s for a dose of reality, if peak oil hits and human food becomes scarce enough to cause a dieoff, what do you think will happen to dogs (and other pets)?

I imagine some people will let their dogs loose to fend for themselves when they cannot afford or even get sufficient food for the humans in the family. Already in the countryside occasionally people dump dogs and sometimes these get in packs and can be dangerous to both humans and livestock. I have never had to kill any myself, but know of people who have. I think this will be an increasing problem post peak.

Emphatically agreed. Feral cats are endemic here on the West Coast, and have pretty much become a permanent part of the ecosystems here, for good or ill. And I understand that feral dog packs are quite a problem in some parts of the East Coast. Lots of people currently have pets that they will be completely unable to care for post Peak. At this point people should only get a pet if they are certain they'll have a good place for it. Long term. I'm still debating it for myself.
Lord, here comes the flood
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It'll be those who gave their island to survive...
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Re: I want a dog.

Unread postby BlisteredWhippet » Mon 30 Oct 2006, 22:21:47

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('elocs', 'I') wish if it had to happen it would have been me rather than her because if she lives to be 100 and can no longer recognize her own children she will probably remember when she was responsible for having her little dog get killed right in front of her eyes when she was 10 years old.


This is exactly the kind of valuable life lesson that you teach little kids when you get them pets, like "animals are here for your own self-fulfillment", and its evil twin, "you must have an animal in order to be emotionally whole".

In this case, perhaps, the lesson of responsibility turned into an emotional scar she'll have for life! Lovely.

And will this exposure to chattel ownership of animals beautify and dignify her existence as a homo sapien? Probably not. And will the stewardship of this animal transfer into a stewardship of all forms of life, the diversity of the ecosystem in which she lives? Probably not.

You just kind of create another, smaller, neurotic version of yourself. Please, stop this insanity. We can get by and lead full, fulfilling lives, and have a deep, respectful communion with nature and animalia without "owning" animals.

For every minute you spend picking up shit, you could have spent that time observing nature, maybe talking to another real, live human being. You could have cultivated a comforting sense of peace at being alone, but at the same time, belonging to the much greater tableau of Nature.

Animal ownership, as I see it, is infantilization of the drive toward communion with nature, a schizophrenic maladaption for people phobic of the wild, or perhaps morbidly attracted to fuzzy mammals, easily anthropomorphized, a postmodern human disease.

Time and time again I see in this thread the interchangability of human and animal emotional interaction. It is absolutely clear and somewhat cliche to point out these things, but what amazes me is that there is so little self-reflection here. Dogs and Cats as pets is simply taken as a condition of life here on Earth. A pattern of habit, to some. A signifier of moral aptitude for others.

The pet is a meta-object, a blank slate onto which the owners project and reflect internal dialouge. The pet is a plug to fill a void, and that void is simply this: an authentic experience of nature. For the childless mother, it is an immaculately conceived child, forever infantile, who will never grow up. For the maladjusted lover, it is a stalwart companion whose friendship and fealty is super-human. The bond between pet and owner is spiritual because it is not profoundly sacred on its face. It is a parasitical relationship for the animal, yet the romance of human intellect recreates the scene to serve its psycho-emotional master: the dog teaches you things about yourself, shows you who you are, communes with you, "loves" you.

I would suggest that all this is contrived fantasy, and that would also be cliche, but I think its true. For everything there is an equal and opposite reaction. For every ounce of energy you submit into pet ownership, you deny from all else. This transactionalism is inherent in the relationship, after all. You "own" the dog. But do you make a conscious decision to live with the animal? I would say no.

I would say the prime reasons for having a pet are metaphysical. That is, it has nothing to do with a particular dog, or in the case of one poster, a particular afternoon, or a particular rainy day. Pets are a way to define oneself metaphysically, and is functionally not different from defining ourselves through ownership over other objects: cars, clothes, fashions, money. If we own something, and derive pride, comfort, and identity from it, it is of a class of the same thing: fetish object, and they are interchangeable. The mammal pets just happen to be ideal fetish objects because of their attributes: huggable and sociable, as well as collectable.

The relationship between pet and owner is a complex web of ego and id, hormones and emotionality, habit and personality. That is to say, certain kinds of people are attracted to pet ownership- and these people are not inclined to look at the relationship impartially. The suggestion that pet-owners and the pet-owning persona are incomplete, damaged or mutilated is anathema. It appears that one is attacking a religion to question the tenets and assumptions of pet ownership, and the similarities speak volumes about the forms ownership takes.

A culture which allows the wholesale destruction of the natural world and exalts a few select species as favorable as friends or food... hmmm...

The entire plant and animal kingdom are wondering when enough is enough. Will you ever get the message? Or will it be lost in slobber-override?
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Re: I want a dog.

Unread postby BlisteredWhippet » Mon 30 Oct 2006, 22:24:35

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', '
')Most women are married to big hairy animals that fart. A dog is for people who want unconditional love, both given and recieved. :lol:


To be honest it makes me physically ill to regard human and animal "love" as interchangable. I find it distressing, this sort of capitulation of the highest of human emotions. We have no sense of adventure, so we get a TV, and that works. We have no authentic sense of companionship, so we get a dog.

Don't we ALL want unconditional love? Do we really think a dog is a full, articulated substitute for unconditional human love? This is a fantasy.

Tell me, what would you say if your husband brought home a goldfish and held it up, "Honey, this little fish really gives me the unconditional love that you are somehow incapable of." How would that make you feel? How does it make him feel to know that his presence is trumped by a dog, that he is redundant, in a sense? I guess if he doesn't care about you or the whole ball 'n' chain, it wouldn't matter much. Then again, if you know someone pretty much thinks your attentions are interchangable with a small furry animal with a brain the size of a lemon, your pride would probably prevent you from suffering the indignity and absurdity of having to prove yourself more worthy. Just like it might make you feel a little worse for wear to have to explain what it is about you that is especially better or more fulfilling than a little vertebrate that does little more than eat and poop all day.

Not that marraige in most cases is any good anyway. They usually dovetail into some mutually scarring, dehumanizing characature of authentic connection, which is pretty much what most pet ownership is comprised of.

Its what you settle for, I guess. You say, I don't need to go on walks alone, or be alone, or sharpen my human senses, or have any authentic relationships with animals, or humans. You just pour all of your prejudices and incompetencies and fears onto one shaggy platter and drink in the endorphins and assorted hormonal brain junk that spasms reflexively every time you pick the little guy up. You're a slave to that feeling, the psycho-emotional bondage and masochism that really makes pet ownership a uniquely human addiction.

As a distraction from the banality of your life, I guess its better than smoking crack, but scooping shit ain't far off.
Last edited by BlisteredWhippet on Mon 30 Oct 2006, 22:54:40, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: I want a dog.

Unread postby threadbear » Mon 30 Oct 2006, 22:53:46

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BlisteredWhippet', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', '
')Most women are married to big hairy animals that fart. A dog is for people who want unconditional love, both given and recieved. :lol:


I'm not in the mood for amateur hour.

Animals are not capable of unconditional love, this is something only capable by human males.


Not in the mood for amateur hour? Now there's a withering putdown from an effete prima donna, if ever I read one.

Unconditional love is rare and most men are too self centered to be capable of it. Many of their "selfless" acts are performed with some self serving end goal in mind.

Dogs are different.
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Re: I want a dog.

Unread postby threadbear » Tue 31 Oct 2006, 01:14:22

I should qualify previous post. Most people are not capable of unconditional love, it's possibly as true of women as of men.
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Re: I want a dog.

Unread postby Bytesmiths » Tue 31 Oct 2006, 02:50:51

All this talk of unconditional love and companionship is about to make me throw up.

I want a dog, too. I'll turn it loose inside the deer fence that isn't working so good, and it will protect my garden. A working dog that earns its keep -- anything else will be a luxury post-peak.
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Re: I want a dog.

Unread postby WildRose » Tue 31 Oct 2006, 15:42:03

I've had a canine companion pretty much all my life, all large dogs, mostly German Shepherd types. They have been my running and walking partners and have protected my home many times (actually, to the point that on one street where I lived, mine was one of the few that had not been broken into).

Dogs and people have cohabited for a long time, starting out as protectors and workers and then becoming companions. There have been countless stories of dogs saving people from tragedy, and many of these accounts are quite amazing and a real testament to the intelligence and intuition of these animals.

So, why should they not have a place in our lives?

When I reflect on the life of the dog I have now (a 15-year-old Shepherd), I find it hard to put into words exactly what she is to me. She is not a child; I have three children. She is not a friend; I can't converse with her and besides, I have lots of friends. I also have a loving husband. I think most of all I respect her just for what she is and I do feel love for her. Sometimes, with all the contact I have with other humans, I find a dog's company most welcome.
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Re: I want a dog.

Unread postby BlisteredWhippet » Tue 31 Oct 2006, 18:15:09

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Shannymara', 'T')here are plenty of examples of species having mutually beneficial strong relationships in nature. The relationship between humans and dogs started before civilization. There is evidence that some hunter gatherers lived and worked with dogs. Therefore I don't think the relationship in general is necessarily a distraction or substitute, although it certainly may be in some cases. And what's wrong with deriving some fun and companionship from the working relationship? Jeez.


I reject the hypothesis that this is a symbiotic relationship. Feelings in a social animal does not amount to currency. The dog takes food, attention, time, and energy. In return, the human imagines her feelings spring from the relationship with the dog.

My hypothesis is that the dog is a tabula rasa onto which the human projects her extant inner reality. The interchangability of the animal means that there is nothing special in its individuation. Any dog will substitute, more or less, with any other dog.

I'm talking about the kind of relationship that is largely psycho-emotional in nature, not a 'working dog'. I'm referring to pets who become recepticles and mirrors for human conceptualization. Objectification and anthropomorphism go hand in hand.

The trouble I see is when people organize their inner lives around the phantom emotionality that springs from the ritualism of ownership. Already in the comments on the board there is a distinct identification of human emotional life and a dog's life.

We think its bizarre that Egypt worshipped cats, but that conceptualization is not far off from the religiosity that many pet owners seem to imbue into their animal relationships. I think that people who revere pets in terms of the superiority of their companionship with people, of their affection, or even convoluted concepts of 'love', are already there or on their way. The animal has captured a piece of their humanity like Jack Daniels captures a piece of an alcoholic's humanity.

I think its a complex problem and I suspect there is much to it than meets the eye. The fetishistic contemporary modes of animal ownership are highly fetishized, ritualized transactions of food for attention, food for emotion.

Animals are systemically robbed of their totemic and spiritual power in this society. America was built upon the innovations of animal domesticity and domination. The diversity of speciation spectacularly taken down. Instead of a rich tableau of complex symbols and relationships representing the immersion of humanness in a larger web of life, cultural values train only the instinct of domination.

By cutting ourselves loose of nature and destroying what is left of it, we've diminished as beings. When the pet poodle is 'everything' to a little old lady of 85, our society signals its pathology. Humans unable to relate to other humans, and the relationship of humans to nature characterized in the pet-owner relationship.

Fundamentally, a dog is a manufactured creature. Believe it of not, domestication did not occur because some dogs recognized some mystical "kinship" with humans. Modern dogs are the result of intensive selective breeding, another term for this is genetic manipulation. Take a stroll down to the fish store and examine the Black Guppy. Its resplendent tail, shimmying movement, and bulging eyes are a result of selective interbreeding. Do the little girls and boys realize when they take this crippled, retarded little monster home and put it in a bowl, it is no more an authentic representative of nature if we had, for instance, grew spare parts in a vat and glued together an elephant in a zoo?

The "dog" exists only in the artificiality of its relationship to a human being. Without which, they are a waste product bound for the incinerator. Canus exists in shadowed obscurity inside the impenitrable veil of nature. When a human encounters wolf, his humanness is enhanced, the relationship poignant, not picturesque.


Why would a wild animal need us? What does it teach us if not its wildness, its repudiation of sentimentality? There is a wildness in us that is touched by the same. Conversely, domesticity stokes its own fire in us. Domestic animals, domesticated people. The less domesticated are amused by Seigfreid being mauled by a Lion. This is wildness triumphant, like playing Hooky from school or reckless, passionate sex.

Domesticity is the gradual building of iron cages around a freer, slipperier primal human psyche. A flesh and blood prison for the mind. Too many of us are compulsive rule-followers, anal-retentive, ambivalent to any greater calling.

We go through motions- why? All modern activity is a parody of some essential form, why should pets be different? The sad fact is, I think, for many people, their children are simply pets as well. The difference is ontological. What did Perry Ferrell posit: "We'll make great pets." We certainly are. We teach what we know, and what we know how to do is obey.

Who among you is a dog lover enough to let the dog express its nature to the fullest extent? A dog will happily roll in, and eat, shit. A fact not lost, by the way, on numerous, possibly more enlightened, cultures than ours.
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Re: I want a dog.

Unread postby threadbear » Tue 31 Oct 2006, 18:47:27

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BlisteredWhippet', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', '
')Most women are married to big hairy animals that fart. A dog is for people who want unconditional love, both given and recieved. :lol:


To be honest it makes me physically ill to regard human and animal "love" as interchangable. I find it distressing, this sort of capitulation of the highest of human emotions. We have no sense of adventure, so we get a TV, and that works. We have no authentic sense of companionship, so we get a dog.

Not that marraige in most cases is any good anyway. They usually dovetail into some mutually scarring, dehumanizing characature of authentic connection, which is pretty much what most pet ownership is comprised of.

As a distraction from the banality of your life, I guess its better than smoking crack, but scooping shit ain't far off.


Oh Lord Whippet. Having a dog or cat is the nearest most people CAN come to having an empathic relationship with the natural world. Your own comments seem to anthropomorphize "nature" as much as people do their pets. Your adoration of the of the natural world is, in it's own way, as much of a caricature as a bleached blonde bimbo clutching a distressed looking toy poodle.

As far as pet induced brain chemical rush-- If you can reduce a sensation down to it's constituent chemical parts, the "highest love" of one human for another is largely dependant on the hormone oxytocin. But what is oxytocin, or any mood or state generating hormone? The chemicals are simply the observable and measurable manifestations of something more substantial in terms of meaning. You go from reductionism to romanticism with great ease, in your last post. Can these two be reconciled?
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Re: I want a dog.

Unread postby BlisteredWhippet » Wed 01 Nov 2006, 20:36:15

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', '
')
As far as pet induced brain chemical rush-- If you can reduce a sensation down to it's constituent chemical parts, the "highest love" of one human for another is largely dependant on the hormone oxytocin. But what is oxytocin, or any mood or state generating hormone? The chemicals are simply the observable and measurable manifestations of something more substantial in terms of meaning. You go from reductionism to romanticism with great ease, in your last post. Can these two be reconciled?


Well, I think of it this way: reductionism is a key to new romanticism. Otherwise, what have you got? Old romanticism becomes habit, tradition, and caricature. Romanticism under pressure of reductionism evolves; without it coagulates. Humans have certain assumptions about the world, and if you want to change those assumptions, then reductionism is the way to do it.

Science could be construed as a field of reductionism dissolving the entire culture in an acid bath. The western philosophers of the 17th century were all about science, and attempting to dissolve the veil of folk knowledge that covered everything. In order to undertake this effort, they had to reductify their mission to principles and then romanticize that process.

But culture tends to coagulate, solidify around certain romanticized images. Every time you open a wikipedia page about something, you're exposed to reductive forces. So we have a popular conception of pets and then the history of where "pets" came from, and the various meanings and evolutions of the concept through time, and only by reduction can you appreciate it fully.

The physicist Richard P Feynman had a friend, some obnoxious artist who he frequently talked about beauty with. The artist held forth the opinion that by dissection and discovery a flower was made less beautiful, whereas Feynman held that his appreciation only grew. I actually think the artist is and was a kind of reductionist because painting and perceiving is a type of reconstruction.

Most people are like the artist, they have a dog, they enjoy it, and they don't need to deconstruct it. The door is always there, though. If they don't open it, what do they really know- what are they left with? The relationship is therefore only the sum of their assumptions, biases, rationalizations, feelings, and so forth.

You would think that most dog owners, living so closely with the animal would be able to produce a small book about all the aspects of ownership, but I doubt they could make even a pamphlet out of their experience, and most of that would be conjecture and speculation. The "artist" can look in the sky and appreciate a Raven and say a few words about its beauty, but can you say he appreciates it as much as the person who writes a novel-length treatise on the species? Reductionism allows for deeper and more meaningful romanticization. Reductionism doesn't lead to a lack of romanticization, it leads to deeper, more varied types of romanticization. It doesn't "end" somewhere, it opens up a kaleidoscope of possibilities. You said " The chemicals are simply the observable and measurable manifestations of something more substantial in terms of meaning. " That is correct, there is something more meangingful and substantial hidden beyond the veil of your romanticism.

Like I said, most people don't need to romanticize or reduce things. They are content with the romanticization they know. Consider though a psyche which resists reductionism. They are stuck with a romanticism, for better for fear of worse. Should they be? Why shouldn't they subject their thoughts and attitudes to introspection?

Its like Bush's America, for example. This Americanism is a strain of romanticism that protects itself from reductionism. It plays along where it tends to illustrate its own preconceptions and biases. Bush's team loves to report the economy just went into an upswing or talk about states that uphold "values" BS. This is like a dog owner who engages in selective reductionism, he will eat up a Living-section of the newspaper article about how pets lower your blood pressure or tales of the special, precocious relationship someone has with an animal, anything consistent with his romantic view.

Each example shows how romanticism is a conceptualization that gives meaning and defines experience. For many, their version of pet ownership is the very best relationship they can have, better than a relationship with people. They ascribe this virtue to the pet, when it is in fact their romanticization of the pet that defines it. Bush's government has been very effective at convincing everyone that their governance is the best that it could be because they believe so strongly that it is the best.

People define themselves into a conceptual corner. You see them all the time, clutching these old ideas and concepts. The rigidity and inflexibility against the ever-encroaching forces of reductionism wears away at the veil, and their convictions become brittle and vulnerable. They eventually bear the loss of romanticism by organic decay. Sooner or later the veil will fall, while suffering a thousand small punctures.

This process is illustrated with the romanticization of a new pet. The organic decay of fresh romanticism begins quickly as the dog pees on the carpet and shits on the bed. The more resilient- which is to say, those destined for brittleness- smile, clean it up, and restore the gloss of cuteness. After a while it becomes clear that there is a fair amount of work involved with getting a dog to understand where and when to poop and pee, and the difficulties in training shatter illusions on the intelligibility of initial interactions. In short, the experience is a kind of reductionism going from an idealization to a reality. The successful manage this in a way that does not diminish their experience.

But the reality of all this is not communicated by contemporary romanticization. Pets are an industry, and the industry pushes a romanticization that is a glossy simplification that impresses on unprepared people an unfair burden. I would argue that not only is it unfair to people, but to the animals as well. This is cliche, but the truth is, it is a disaster.

The dog and cat incinerators, as I mentioned, are running 24 hours a day across America. The Pet food industry is a large patron of industrial farming practices and a multibillion dollar industry. Cats decimate small local bird populations. Nutrient-heavy dogshit infects waterways with fecal coliform bacteria. "Easter" Bunnies are thrown away, multiply and overrun, eating young native plant shoots. Small effects multiplied by millions of indivduations, and subject to accumulation over time. This is not trivial.

You go to some towns in Eastern Europe, and you have no problem perceiving that perhaps their romanticization and relationship to animals needs a revision. The living room is covered with straw, a cow occupies the middle of the room. Fresh milk on demand- cool. But the filth and smell is overpowering. Here is the scythe of social relativism, twin evil cousin of reductionism coming in. You think you're enlightened until you encounter certain middle eastern or African or South American cultures, who look at you with disgust- you keep your animals inside? Dogs are filthy. There are whole swathes of the country where the appropriate reaction to any dog is to pick up a rock and throw.

If your only frame of reference is your own romanticization, that is the only standard you can use to interpret these things. Therefore every bodybag coming back from Iraq is a symbol of staying the course. Romanticism, I said, is subject to the forces of decay.

But romanticism is necessary. Romanticism gives us convictions and conceptual space. Humans romanticize. I am not suggesting that humans can get rid of romanticism or should even aspire to that. It is a barren impossibility. Nihilism is still romanticization.

What I am suggesting is that there be a new romanticism that returns the balance to nature. I believe the perception of this necessity is blocked by a romanticism that implies that the norms of pet ownership somehow balances the indivudal and nature. Pet ownership is clearly a salve for urban humans that lack an authentic connection with nature, which implies a deep psychological need. These psychological needs were never so bare, or so raw as when the natural world was closer, and wilder. With development and spread of humanity, wildness has been pushed back, sanitized, humanized, and the essense of nature chased from those places. These essential forces exist in animals most clearly. Pets are the watered down substitute. Domestication is the process where you drive from a an animal all traits not desirable. Wildness is a condition where traits do not exist for anyone's sake. Wildness makes possible diversity of expression. Pet owners, I think, attempt to tap the psychic wellhead of wildness that exists in the soul of an animal to touch a perfect form of devotion, and "love". All else is stripped out but is found in nature. So where do we pull the rest of human experience from as example, or avatar? Lapdogs can only teach humans to act like lapdogs. Ambivalent cats teach humans haow to be ambivalent and selfish. Caged birds teach us how to be frustrated. Fish teach us the essense of being trapped and confined. Our vital experience of life is holgraphically demonstrated by each animal. A native american on the plain could have the strength of a buffalo, the eyes of an eagle, and so forth. This is predicated on the presense of these animals. We think we can get by without the presense of these animals, or settle for a "nature documentary". We shall see.

I don't have to own a dog to appreciate dog-ness. Likewise for eagle-ness, bear-ness, fish-ness. I appreciate all these things. I internalize their conceptual forms. I find though, that dogs, honestly, are less rich than wild forms. They are, in a way, man-made. The relationship between (early) humans and wild animals was characterized by ambiguous, etheral presence. Pet ownership is characterized, I would say, by domination. This is a huge difference. This dominance has been triumphant over the past 300 years, driving wildness out of everywhere and levelling the conceptual tapestry of animal life, of which we are still just one part.

If a human remains free of domination, then what is he? A "savage". Humans can return to wildness themselves, return to the enfolded realities outside the culture. To get there requires a new romanticism of the self.

Why are we content with the perfect love of the dog?

Gollum's "precious" lies within the walnut brain of a domestic cat. We could run with bears but we have chosen the anally retentive ambivalence of the cat. Who chose this? Who can choose otherwise when wildness is gone? Animals disappear from the earth, and they cannot be brought back. Without wildness, we cannot find ourselves back to meaningful romanticizations. We will be marooned in a sea of human-centric, transcendent romanticizations brought about by religion and culture.

Culture is the antioxidant which resists romantic decay. Attack cultural norms and values and you poke holes in its conceptual defenses. Conceptual battles result in changes to material reality. A new romanticism was the underlying engine of the 60s cultural revolt. Its failure is irrelevant. Every new idea flings itself like a kamikaze at the old romanticization. The futility of this post, for instance. Every coyote crossing the highway is a conceptual attempt to stop traffic from happening. Birds occasionally try to transgress and stop windows from happening. Elephants try to stop human development from overrunning the land, and Tigers sometimes try to stop humans from thinking they are the top consumer.

PO is about sea-change. These are conditions in which wide swaths of culture are knocked down and barbarians are able to sweep through. Modern culture and society, predicated on cheap energy, amounts to a mass romanticization of man's place in nature. Those within the cultural value scale sense the nearness of change, and it makes them anxious. Many people quaver and wring their hands over the dissolution of false impressions. The balance of wildness and complextiy and diversity could potentially return. We must embrace this, finally. We must learn to live without these simplistic token comforts. The Earth cannot suffer the inevitable results of continued domination. People cannot evolve without new romanticisms which embrace nondominational concepts. It will be the end of us. We cannot suffer the advance of the current unworkable romanticizations.


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'O')h Lord Whippet. Having a dog or cat is the nearest most people CAN come to having an empathic relationship with the natural world. Your own comments seem to anthropomorphize "nature" as much as people do their pets. Your adoration of the of the natural world is, in it's own way, as much of a caricature as a bleached blonde bimbo clutching a distressed looking toy poodle.


The current romanticization is that pet ownership is sufficient to commune with the natural world. It is not. It does not open doors in people's minds. As such it is delusion, a lie, a simple untruth. Its the Matrix. A smile for a veil, etc. Do you think you can tell?

My anthropomorphisms? This is putting a human "face" on things. I don't think I have done this. You can see in the art of early humans that they did not put a human face on nature, they wore nature's faces on themselves. They took its forms as totemic, not its physical incarnation. The imposition of man as domesticization, development, growth, springs from one cultural drive among untold numbers of cultures in which this was not so ruthlessly persued. Modern man is a person who has settled for less. There is no susbstitute for authenticity. No test-tube, stem cell elephant grown in vitro is going to equal the vanishing elephant persona. What is precious about nature cannot be subject to reduction without utter destruction, unlike a mere conceptualization or romanticization.

So finally, we come to this: we either apply reductionism to our romanticizations and act accordingly, or suffer reductionism of the authentic which will leave our subsequent romanticizations more authentically impoverished.

People should not miss the forest for the trees by fleeing from those mechanizations which move to destroy the barriers between themselves and what gives their life meaning, but they do. They hold onto unreality with the death grip of fear.

Those for whom this is their only option are already impoverished utterly. These are people walking blasted and scarred landscapes from which diversity was wiped out. I would maintain the modern American nuclear family home is just one such example, like Somalia.

For every specie or wild area wiped out, we invest fractionally diluted energy into the pet, zoo, or objectification investment with diminishing returns. Will we be able to pull everything about the expansive meaning of our experience in nature through the singularity of a handful of domesticated animals, and their cartoon representatives? Can myth alone carry the meaning these animals give our existeneces after their physical forms are gone? I think the acceptance of substitute is part of a great diminishment of individual humanity, and humanity as a whole. We accept too much the inauthentic as rountine. As such we are lost, and this civilization will fall. Its romanticizations will one day be laid bare, as obviously as the ruins of Athens or Rome.
Last edited by BlisteredWhippet on Thu 02 Nov 2006, 01:30:22, edited 2 times in total.
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