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THE Jimmy Carter Thread (merged)

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Re: The US & Israel Stand Alone: Interview with Jimmy Ca

Unread postby Miki » Tue 29 Aug 2006, 15:15:33

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rwwff', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Miki', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'f')act: lebanon is in a desert
Lebanon is a Mediterranean country. We don't have 1 inch of desert.

To most people here in the US, what you have there, and what Greece also has a lot of, is desert. It might not be miles and miles of flowing sand dunes; but it is desert by any reasonable American English definition of the word.

But we don't have a single area that is dry and the only places where there is sand are the narrow shores along some beaches. Rainfall here is much higher than in Texas or Arizona or NM.
You asked if we import livestock feed. I'm not familiar with the way farming is done around here. I'll try to find out. That said, the hills around here are pretty green and the sheep/cows seem to feed on them just fine. It is also healthier than feeding them hormones :).
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Re: The US & Israel Stand Alone: Interview with Jimmy Ca

Unread postby nwildmand » Wed 30 Aug 2006, 02:46:14

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Miki', '2')-What a coincidence that every time you don't respond it is because I said something that ridiculed whatever you had said in your previous post.

your flattering yourself. im not going to spend 4 hours a day here arguing with some that can not be reasoned with.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'Y')ou just admitted the other day that it was your aim to sway opinion.

when it come to you and your biased view yes. have you even noticed my posts when not arguing with you? they are very different.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'M')ost of your posts are teenagerish, bigot, or chicken hawkish.

it just would not be you without the insults. why such a continuing theme with the people you debate. is everybody that does not agree with you stupid?
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'S')ome people that disagrree with me (eg, Rwwff) do have smart educated things to say, but you're not among them.

just more insults.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'O')h, I sure have. But you have done it more often because you were wrong more often.

yes we know your damn near pefect.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'M')y first post was a response to Rwwff's cheering of Israel's slaughter of Lebanese children.
i dint say it wasnt. however, if you had handled it better you would have looked better.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('wildman', 'y')ou actually expext us to believe that after all the broad gerneralization you have made towards us. we are not fooled for a second.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'Y')ou can believe whatever you want. I don't care.
we already know that
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'L')ebanon is a Mediterranean country. We don't have 1 inch of desert.
it is compared to most of america. even at that it does not change the fact that you live in one of the worlds most overpopulated countrys and have a pittance of arable land. 21% to be exact. that works out to be about 1765 people for every square kilometer of arable land. that not going to feed you. i would be scared shitless to live there in light of peak oil.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'Y')ou should follow the example of the Europeans: they have even less oil than you, but they focus on technological innovation and education; not on war and state-sponsored terrorism.
europe has its own problems. they are way overpopulated. and that technology you speak of is oil driven - exactly what the world is running out of.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')e don't import meat, eggs, or milk either.
just another lie. lebanon imports 82% of its meat, 100% of its milk powder and 53% of its cheese and butter all while having a 105% tarif on them. you were right on the eggs even though you import/smuggle a lot of baby chicks into you country Lebenon
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'O')therwise, why spend billions of dollars in resource wars?
to keep oil cheaply traded in petrodollars of course.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')hat said, you're absolutely right. I'm already repeating myself and arguing with people whose morals/intelligence are not worth a minute of my time.
i feel special, im the first person you waste your time on when you log on here.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')t is my impression that some of the posters (and probably many of the readers) in this forum have been brainwashed into thinking that war is the only solution to terrorism/resource scarcity/self-defense AND/OR that Muslims are a nation of bloodthirsty backward people that hate the West because of cultural/religious reasons, whose aim is to establish a Muslim caliphate in the world.
were not brainwashed and its all of the above.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'B')ut we don't have a single area that is dry and the only places where there is sand are the narrow shores along some beaches. Rainfall here is much higher than in Texas or Arizona or NM.
not to nitpick but eastern texas is a forest. Upon further reading lebanon is the only middle eastern country that does have a huge desert but desertifacation is a problem. that being said lebanons farms pale in comparison to the average us farm and farmers here would turn your farmland into pasture.
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Re: The US & Israel Stand Alone: Interview with Jimmy Ca

Unread postby rogerhb » Wed 30 Aug 2006, 04:14:46

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rwwff', 'T')o most people here in the US, what you have there, and what Greece also has a lot of, is desert. It might not be miles and miles of flowing sand dunes; but it is desert by any reasonable American English definition of the word.

Desert, n, region that has little or no vegetation because of low rainfall.
American, adj, ignorant.
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers." - Henry Louis Mencken
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Re: The US & Israel Stand Alone: Interview with Jimmy Ca

Unread postby Miki » Wed 30 Aug 2006, 06:08:29

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('nwildmand', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('miki', 'W')e don't import meat, eggs, or milk either.

just another lie. lebanon imports 82% of its meat, 100% of its milk powder and 53% of its cheese and butter all while having a 105% tarif on them. you were right on the eggs even though you import/smuggle a lot of baby chicks into you country
Lebenon

You're confusing livestock production with livestock products. We import the feed for the livestock but we do not import the milk, eggs, or meat that the livestock produce. In fact, livestock products constitute a huge part of our GNP. You do understand what GNP is, right? Re-read the website you quoted. Here:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')b]Livestock accounts for one-third of the gross national product (GNP) of the agricultural sector in Lebanon. Between 1993 and 1995, milk and dairy products accounted for 40% of the GNP from livestock, of which 63% came from cows, 10% from sheep and 27% from goats; meat accounted for 24% of the GNP, with 32% from cattle, 47% from sheep and 21% from goats. Poultry products represented 32% of the total, 84% as meat and 16% as eggs.
Lebanon imports 82% of its requirements for meat, 100% of its milk powder and 53% of its cheese and butter. A survey conducted by the Ministry of Agriculture in collaboration with the Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations (FAO), published in 1990, showed that in the short term Lebanon will find it difficult to attain any appreciable level of self-sufficiency as far as meat from cattle and sheep and milk and dairy products are concerned.

I've never called you a liar, have I?
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Re: The US & Israel Stand Alone: Interview with Jimmy Ca

Unread postby nwildmand » Wed 30 Aug 2006, 13:55:43

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Miki', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('nwildmand', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('miki', 'W')e don't import meat, eggs, or milk either.

just another lie. lebanon imports 82% of its meat, 100% of its milk powder and 53% of its cheese and butter

You're confusing livestock production with livestock products. We import the feed for the livestock but we do not import the milk, eggs, or meat that the livestock produce. In fact, livestock products constitute a huge part of our GNP. You do understand what GNP is, right? Re-read the website you quoted. Here:

i do understand what gnp is and it has nothing to do with my refutation of your claim. the quote from the article actually backs me up not you miki. the fact stands that lebanon has to import most of its meat and dairy products.
so i say this. do you actually what gnp is? judging from your answer i say not in the slightest.
so you either lied about lebanon not having to import its meat and milk products or you just came up with it off the top of your head without knowing the facts. im really not sure which is worse.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Miki', 'I')'ve never called you a liar, have I?

you cant catch me in a lie miki thats why you have not called me liar. you would have if you did considering the sheer amount of insults you have hurled my way.
at least i have the balls to admit when i was wrong instead blindly defending the lie which you continually do and have done here.
so admit it. you were wrong.
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Re: The US & Israel Stand Alone: Interview with Jimmy Ca

Unread postby threadbear » Wed 30 Aug 2006, 14:17:33

NWildman, Miki has handed you your ass so many times in this thread, it's laughable. You may not be able to see it, but I'm sure anyone who doesn't already have you on their ignore list, can.
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Re: The US & Israel Stand Alone: Interview with Jimmy Ca

Unread postby nwildmand » Wed 30 Aug 2006, 15:38:06

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', 'N')Wildman, Miki has handed you your ass so many times in this thread, it's laughable.

maybe to a blind terrorist sympathizer like yourself. she has done no such thing as far as the facts as concerned. did you not notice that all she responded to in my last post was a bald faced lie?
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', 'Y')ou may not be able to see it,

your right i cant see it. you just hate me because i support the us when it comes to the jihadist bullshit.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', 'b')ut I'm sure anyone who doesn't already have you on their ignore list, can.

miki is on way more ignore lists than i am. if she actually had something intelligent to say about peakoil that may not be the case.
you can do better slamming me than post your subjective opinion. come on threadbear, rip my arguments apart.
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Re: The US & Israel Stand Alone: Interview with Jimmy Ca

Unread postby Miki » Wed 30 Aug 2006, 16:16:52

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('nwildmand', 'i') do understand what gnp is and it has nothing to do with my refutation of your claim. the quote from the article actually backs me up not you miki. the fact stands that lebanon has to import most of its meat and dairy products.
so i say this. do you actually what gnp is? judging from your answer i say not in the slightest.
so you either lied about lebanon not having to import its meat and milk products or you just came up with it off the top of your head without knowing the facts. im really not sure which is worse

Let's see Nwildman:
1-You are right. I misread the information. I missed the "agricultural sector" part. I figured that if 1/3 of the GNP was from livestock, there was no way we imported that much meat/dairy, so I thought they were referring to the livestock feed. You have to cut me some slag though, 'cause the wording of the article is confusing (to me, at least) :).
2-GNP is the Gross National Product, right? We learned that in high school.
3-I did not lie. I just expressed my own observations. Most of the milk and cheese and meat that I see at the grocery stores has a "made in Lebanon" stamp on it, but it may just be that I don't buy imported stuff that often, so I haven't paid attention to it.
I admit that my judgement was rather unscientific and based on my own candid observations at the grocery store.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 's')o admit it. you were wrong.

I don't have any problem admitting when I'm wrong nwildman. None of us is perfect, especially before we drink our morning coffee :).
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Re: The US & Israel Stand Alone: Interview with Jimmy Ca

Unread postby Madpaddy » Wed 30 Aug 2006, 16:32:17

The more I think about it, the more I'm convinced that Israel went balls out for Hizbollah to iron out the creases and dust off the IDF for the coming war with Iran. This was the main aim, with the secondary and equally important aim of eliminating the threat on their northern border which failed IMO. However, once the UN force is in place, expect an attack on Iran probably before Christmas. God help those UN soldiers who are going to be the filling in a hell of a s..t sandwich. The French know what's coming which is why they didn't want to commit troops. They had to give in to avoid looking impotent. The White House and Knesset must be rolling around laughing at how things are turning out.
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Re: The US & Israel Stand Alone: Interview with Jimmy Ca

Unread postby nwildmand » Wed 30 Aug 2006, 16:49:41

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Miki', '1')-You are right. 3-I did not lie. I just expressed my own observations. Most of the milk and cheese and meat that I see at the grocery stores has a "made in Lebanon" stamp on it, but it may just be that I don't buy imported stuff that often, so I haven't paid attention to it.

1. your forgiven we all make mistakes
3. there may be some bad marketing going on. a while back we had our own "made in the usa" scandal. its just to easy to slap a sticker on a product. i try and get around it by buying as locally as i can. my meat supplyer is 10 miles north and totally organic.
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Re: The US & Israel Stand Alone: Interview with Jimmy Ca

Unread postby nazman » Wed 30 Aug 2006, 17:36:14

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Madpaddy', 'T')he more I think about it, the more I'm convinced that Israel went balls out for Hizbollah to iron out the creases and dust off the IDF for the coming war with Iran. This was the main aim, with the secondary and equally important aim of eliminating the threat on their northern border which failed IMO. However, once the UN force is in place, expect an attack on Iran probably before Christmas. God help those UN soldiers who are going to be the filling in a hell of a s..t sandwich. The French know what's coming which is why they didn't want to commit troops. They had to give in to avoid looking impotent. The White House and Knesset must be rolling around laughing at how things are turning out.

I hope you're wrong, but I've thought the same myself but in preparation for a US assault.
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Jimmy Carter being criticzed for his new book

Unread postby Eli » Mon 18 Dec 2006, 11:18:20

Apparently Jimmy Carter compares the current State of Israel to the Apartheid Government of South Africa.
Article

I cannot believe he could be making this comparison. Other than being a Government founded on a racist ideology and impoverishing millions of people in slums there is no comparison between the two.
It is interesting to see all the criticism that he is attracting from the Jewish lobby, just for questioning the party line.
Some one pointed this out before and it is a valid criticism why is Zionism given a free pass and not considered a racist ideology?
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Re: Jimmy Carter being criticzed for his new book

Unread postby rogerhb » Mon 18 Dec 2006, 16:24:32

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Eli', 'I') cannot believe he could be making this comparison. Other than being a Government founded on a racist ideology and impoverishing millions of people in slums there is no comparison between the two.

Ah, so no comparison.
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Re: Jimmy Carter being criticzed for his new book

Unread postby threadbear » Mon 18 Dec 2006, 16:43:29

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Eli', 'S')ome one pointed this out before and it is a valid criticism why is Zionism given a free pass and not considered a racist ideology?

I think the common perception is that Israel is acting defensively to protect itself from persecution--that their actions are based on the politics of exclusion rather than racism. But one can easily segue into the other.
It's interesting to note, too, that every argument Israel makes to defend it's position,Germany also made to justify the creation of pogroms against the Jews.

The psychology of vicimtimization has become so entrenched in Israel, that some can't see beyond it, and understand where it often leads. Defensiveness often becomes offensiveness and feelings of exclusivity are ripe to become racism.

I have near neighbours, Austrians, who fought for Germany in WW2. They are the kindest people you could hope to meet, yet when I mentioned the concentration camps to them, they said, "You have to understand, we had a civil war with the Jews". Interesting take on that. The Nazis, armed to the teeth, and representing the majority of the population, had a civil war going with an unarmed vulnerable minority. Is Israel, to a lesser extent, now repeating history with Palestinians, and how far are they prepared to go within a matrix of belief that defines their own people as victims and the Palestinians as the oppressor?
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Re: Jimmy Carter being criticzed for his new book

Unread postby Zardoz » Mon 18 Dec 2006, 18:34:18

I'm confused. A Jewish state is "racist", but an Islamic state is not? "Zionism" is an offense against nature but "Islamism" is perfectly jake?
I don't understand. Please explain this to me.
(Not that I disagree with Carter about what the Israelis are doing, by the way...)
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Re: Jimmy Carter being criticzed for his new book

Unread postby rogerhb » Mon 18 Dec 2006, 18:43:41

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Zardoz', 'I') don't understand. Please explain this to me.

The reason you don't understand is you are deliberately misreading what people are saying. A criticism of Israel is not an apology for any other nation.
BTW, Judaism is a religion but being a Jew can also refer to race. Islam is not a racial description.
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Re: Jimmy Carter being criticzed for his new book

Unread postby Zardoz » Mon 18 Dec 2006, 18:56:16

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rogerhb', 'B')TW, Judaism is a religion but being a Jew can also refer to race.

Why? Are Jews of Russia, Eastern Europe, Western Europe, Africa, the eastern shores of the Mediterranean, and Iran all of the same ethnic background?
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Re: Jimmy Carter being criticzed for his new book

Unread postby rogerhb » Mon 18 Dec 2006, 19:13:23

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Zardoz', 'W')hy? Are Jews of Russia, Eastern Europe, Western Europe, Africa, the eastern shores of the Mediterranean, and Iran all of the same ethnic background?

It's all about who is, or claims or pretends to be descended from the Twelve Tribes.
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Re: Jimmy Carter being criticzed for his new book

Unread postby Zardoz » Mon 18 Dec 2006, 19:39:10

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rogerhb', '.')..It's all about who is, or claims or pretends to be descended from the Twelve Tribes.

Do all Jews claim or pretend to be descended from the Twelve Tribes?
Back in 1938, the Italians had their own special take on it:
Italian Municipal Manifest for the Denunciation of Belonging to the Jewish Race
They thoroughly confused race and religion, as have so many others.
What Is Judaism?
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'B')ut setting aside the emotional issues, Jews are clearly not a race.
Race is a genetic distinction, and refers to people with shared ancestry and shared genetic traits. You can't change your race; it's in your DNA. I could never become black or Asian no matter how much I might want to.
Common ancestry is not required to be a Jew. Many Jews worldwide share common ancestry, as shown by genetic research; however, you can be a Jew without sharing this common ancestry, for example, by converting. Thus, although I could never become black or Asian, blacks and Asians have become Jews (Sammy Davis Jr. and Connie Chung).
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Re: Jimmy Carter being criticzed for his new book

Unread postby rogerhb » Mon 18 Dec 2006, 19:55:24

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Zardoz', 'D')o all Jews claim or pretend to be descended from the Twelve Tribes?

It's never about "all".
We also have to deal with the idea of promised land etc, eg the land promised (by themselves) to the Israelites, aka the Twelve Tribes, and hence their descendents.
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