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THE Jimmy Carter Thread (merged)

A forum for discussion of regional topics including oil depletion but also government, society, and the future.

Re: The US & Israel Stand Alone: Interview with Jimmy Ca

Unread postby rwwff » Fri 25 Aug 2006, 16:37:38

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('seahorse2', 'I')f you go down with a gun in your hand cursing you are going to Valhalla, not some Goddess' icy realm.Valhalla

No one will ever know why we fought or why we died.
No one will care whether we were good men or bad.
All that matters is that few stood against many.
If it is your will, aid me in battle, and if not, to h*** with you.
- rip Conan.
abundance fleeting
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Re: The US & Israel Stand Alone: Interview with Jimmy Ca

Unread postby Jack » Fri 25 Aug 2006, 16:58:37

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('seahorse2', 'J')ack, If you go down with a gun in your hand cursing you are going to Valhalla, not some Goddess' icy realm.Valhalla

I recognize that half the fallen go to Odin's halls, and the other half to Freya's. But recall that Skadhi married Njord, God of the Sea, and is herself part of Asgard.
And, too, there are those who contend that the belief system one resonantes with in life is where one will go after one's demise. So, perhaps, I may yet win entrance to Skadhi's mountain realm.
Then again, maybe I'll be assigned to coal duty, third furnace on the right. 8O
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Re: The US & Israel Stand Alone: Interview with Jimmy Ca

Unread postby seahorse2 » Fri 25 Aug 2006, 17:13:34

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'a')nd, too, there are those who contend that the belief system one resonantes with in life is where one will go after one's demise.

Now Jack, if that's true, that's the strongest argument yet to convert to Islam - don't they promise lots of virgins?
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Re: The US & Israel Stand Alone: Interview with Jimmy Ca

Unread postby Miki » Fri 25 Aug 2006, 17:54:39

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rwwff', 'I')ts hard to prove really; and it is certainly the case that when Jose CEO is abducted the media notices. But do they notice when Maria and her two kids in a small hut next to a plantation, who haven't eaten 500 cal/day each in over a year simply do not get up for work the next morning?

You're mixing things here. We were talking about who'd be the target of violence in a starving world. What does Maria's death of starvation has to do with that? She'd proably rob someone before starving to death--and that's my point.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')n the French revolutions, sure they got some bigwigs, chopped off their heads, made a big show. Did anyone go around and count the number of folks in the countryside that quietly starved to death, or those that died in Napolean's army later. Do you think that army was made up of aristocracy?

I'm still missing your point. Napoleon's army was not fighting for food, or was it?
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Re: The US & Israel Stand Alone: Interview with Jimmy Ca

Unread postby Miki » Fri 25 Aug 2006, 17:57:54

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('seahorse2', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'a')nd, too, there are those who contend that the belief system one resonantes with in life is where one will go after one's demise.

Now Jack, if that's true, that's the strongest argument yet to convert to Islam - don't they promise lots of virgins?

I've asked a friend of mine who has studied the Koran quite diligently and he explained to me that those "virgins" are a misinterpretation of the masses. He explained to me that the "virgins" are a symbol for nymphs.
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Re: The US & Israel Stand Alone: Interview with Jimmy Ca

Unread postby Jack » Fri 25 Aug 2006, 18:44:24

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('seahorse2', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'a')nd, too, there are those who contend that the belief system one resonantes with in life is where one will go after one's demise.

Now Jack, if that's true, that's the strongest argument yet to convert to Islam - don't they promise lots of virgins?

And why, pray thee tell, would I want to deal with such inexperience? I think not.
Helping drive the ice and freezing rain, destroying the farmer's spring crops, hearing the lamentations of the living - now that is something to work for. :twisted:
Once upon a time, years and years ago, an amateur astrologer drew up a chart for me. Her interpretation was that I was someone who had thrown away his humanity, behaving like a pitiless force of nature. It seemed to disturb her, although I rather liked it. Ah well - one shouldn't put too much stock in such things.
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Re: The US & Israel Stand Alone: Interview with Jimmy Ca

Unread postby rwwff » Fri 25 Aug 2006, 19:48:38

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Miki', 'Y')ou're mixing things here. We were talking about who'd be the target of violence in a starving world. What does Maria's death of starvation has to do with that? She'd probably rob someone before starving to death--and that's my point.

They are both violent. And most likely, if she tried to rob someone, she'd be shot by the plantation guards; her kids would be left with no mom, and not one twiddle would be printed anywhere about it. The mom'd be lucky if someone thought to bury her. If your fantasy were accurate, there would not be masses of people living in near slavery in South and Central America.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')'m still missing your point. Napoleon's army was not fighting for food, or was it?

What does it matter what they are dieing for. I'm just describing the body count, and why the poor always come out on the short end of the stick on that score.
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Re: The US & Israel Stand Alone: Interview with Jimmy Ca

Unread postby rogerhb » Fri 25 Aug 2006, 21:01:26

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Miki', 'I')'m still missing your point. Napoleon's army was not fighting for food, or was it?

No, it was a conscript army that thought it was fighting the enemies of France, meanwhile creating an empire for Boneparte...
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers." - Henry Louis Mencken
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Re: The US & Israel Stand Alone: Interview with Jimmy Ca

Unread postby Miki » Sat 26 Aug 2006, 11:42:35

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rwwff', 'T')hey are both violent. And most likely, if she tried to rob someone, she'd be shot by the plantation guards;

That's interesting. I lived in SouthAmerica for 21 years and the police were not very effective in preventing theft, leave alone shooting the thieves or preventing violence.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')f your fantasy were accurate, there would not be masses of people living in near slavery in South and Central America.

And you think those people are not violent? Have you ever checked their crime rates? Or the durg mafias? Or the guerrillas and terrorist groups?
And if they were really starving, they'd be much more violent. So far, they live with extremely modest means, but they're not starving like the people in Africa. I wouldn't call it "near slavery". Just because they have very low salaries (compared to Americans), that doesn't mean they're slaves. They are free, eventhough they are oppressed because LatinAmerican societies are characterized by inequity and social mobility is very limited, though not impossible.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')hat does it matter what they are dieing for. I'm just describing the body count, and why the poor always come out on the short end of the stick on that score.

They might, but that won't stop them from atacking the rich in a starvation era. I think it is fair to say that they'd atack both the rich and the poor, depending on the circumstances.
Going back to Jack's original statement, if he had many "slaves" from the Third World, the slaves would not atack each other to steal food--they'd join forces and atack him. After all, he'd be able to provide them with much for food than they could ever steal from each other.
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Re: The US & Israel Stand Alone: Interview with Jimmy Ca

Unread postby rwwff » Sat 26 Aug 2006, 12:24:03

I said nothing about police.
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Re: The US & Israel Stand Alone: Interview with Jimmy Ca

Unread postby Miki » Sat 26 Aug 2006, 12:26:49

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rwwff', 'I') said nothing about police.

What did you mean by plantation guards? There are no plantations in S. America. It sounds like you lived in Central America or the Caribean for a while?
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Re: The US & Israel Stand Alone: Interview with Jimmy Ca

Unread postby threadbear » Sat 26 Aug 2006, 13:05:58

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jack', 'A')h, yes. Jimmy Carter. :roll:
The man who had to defend himself from an attack rabbit, and did the job badly. The president who sent Special Forces into Iran, saw a complete mess evolve, and looked absurd. The hapless leader who punished Iran's takeover of the American embassy by not lighting the national Christmas tree. :roll:
George is, arguably, several fajitas short of a taco; that said, Carter was not an effective president. Given the choice between the two, I suppose I'd have to choose Bush again.
Carter. The Georgia peanut farmer that aspires to be Mother Theresa.

The press, backed by beneficiaries of pork and boondogle, launched a campaign to bring Carter down.
His downfall was built upon the wilfull ignorance and complicit contempt for the truth that forms the back bone of the country. Rather than obsess on the rabbit in the press photo, the public should have been hunting for the corporate magicians, who were diverting their attention while siphoning their tax dollars.
A Little Truth for Yankee right wing--(but you just know the ones who need to read this kind of thing, never will)
"All of the various dams and water projects on Carter's "hit list" drained taxpayers in exchange for scant economic benefits, but some invited catastrophe as well. One project, the Auburn Dam, was to be constructed near a fault line in California. A Bureau of Reclamation study had predicted that in the event of an earthquake, dam failure would flood 750,000 people, the state capital, and five military bases." Article
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Re: The US & Israel Stand Alone: Interview with Jimmy Ca

Unread postby Jack » Sat 26 Aug 2006, 13:38:16

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Miki', 'G')oing back to Jack's original statement, if he had many "slaves" from the Third World, the slaves would not atack each other to steal food--they'd join forces and atack him. After all, he'd be able to provide them with much for food than they could ever steal from each other.

And that, Miki, is why you must break their will. Must divide and conquer, sow suspicion and mutual distrust. Yes, let them feel anger, even hatred - and direct it. Use it.
If those tactics fail, then one must be prepared to deal with the problem proactively. 8)
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Re: The US & Israel Stand Alone: Interview with Jimmy Ca

Unread postby rwwff » Sat 26 Aug 2006, 14:01:29

Miki, I think you know exactly what I mean. I need to stay out of these "Open" threads. Too much time and emotion, for so little illumination.

You and Jack can have the last word.
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Re: The US & Israel Stand Alone: Interview with Jimmy Ca

Unread postby Jack » Sat 26 Aug 2006, 15:20:22

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rwwff', 'M')iki, I think you know exactly what I mean. I need to stay out of these "Open" threads. Too much time and emotion, for so little illumination.
You and Jack can have the last word.

No illunimation at all, actually.
Keep in mind, there isn't much else to discuss at the moment. It's pretty well established that a problem is coming, although no one knows exactly when. It's generally accepted that no easy or quick solution is at hand, and that the consequences are going to be bad - again, no one knows exactly to what degree.
We mostly agree that the future will be less pleasant than the past, and there's a suspicion that the world's population will behave badly as things get worse.
So - what might generate more illumination for the effort? Discussions of biofuels? Plans for electric cars? Dissertations on subsistance farming? :lol: We'll just get a new thread on subjects that have been hashed, re-hashed, and re-re-hashed a hundred times before.
Until some real events occur, until some new information comes in, we're all just killing time according to our various predispositions. So pull up a chair, open a cold drink, and engage in the pointless posturing and public histrionics. It's good clean fun, and squanders less energy than most of the alternatives.
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Re: The US & Israel Stand Alone: Interview with Jimmy Ca

Unread postby Miki » Sun 27 Aug 2006, 05:10:54

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rwwff', 'M')iki, I think you know exactly what I mean. I need to stay out of these "Open" threads. Too much time and emotion, for so little illumination.
You and Jack can have the last word.

This is the second time you accuse me of lying/faking. I don't see what your point is in doing that. Do you read my mind now?
If I ask a question it's because I did not understand what you meant. No need to second guess my intentions because you won't find many people as straightforward as me.
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Re: The US & Israel Stand Alone: Interview with Jimmy Ca

Unread postby Miki » Sun 27 Aug 2006, 05:15:37

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jack', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Miki', 'G')oing back to Jack's original statement, if he had many "slaves" from the Third World, the slaves would not atack each other to steal food--they'd join forces and atack him. After all, he'd be able to provide them with much for food than they could ever steal from each other.

And that, Miki, is why you must break their will. Must divide and conquer, sow suspicion and mutual distrust. Yes, let them feel anger, even hatred - and direct it. Use it.
If those tactics fail, then one must be prepared to deal with the problem proactively. 8)

Keep hoping. All your preemptive wars won't exterminate them. For every one that dies, hunderds of thousands are born everyday.
Our birth rates exceed yours by far, and in a starvation era we won't think twice before killing for food----and the psychopaths that supported the preemptive wars against us will be beheaded first.
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Re: The US & Israel Stand Alone: Interview with Jimmy Ca

Unread postby Jack » Sun 27 Aug 2006, 07:29:42

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Miki', 'K')eep hoping. All your preemptive wars won't exterminate them. For every one that dies, hundreds of thousands are born everyday.
Our birth rates exceed yours by far, and in a starvation era we won't think twice before killing for food---and the psychopaths that supported the preemptive wars against us will be beheaded first.

That, dear Miki, is because we're far too fastidious. Too afraid to plunge into the heart of the problem and solve it.
Not to worry; there are ways of dealing with it. Quite simple ways. No new technology required. 8)
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Re: The US & Israel Stand Alone: Interview with Jimmy Ca

Unread postby kam30en » Sun 27 Aug 2006, 07:29:54

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')nd the lone voice that warned us about Peak Oil 30 years ago.

Well, no matter what you say about Carter, he knew what peak oil was all about. I've never heard him mention overpopulation though. And I believe he is way too dovish. Islamic fascism and warmongering can only be overcome by force. You can't negotiate with barbaric dark-age fascists who are ruled by clerics and who believe a magic man in the sky wants them to start wars. But I still like Carter, because if we had gone down his road, maybe we wouldn't even need to buy arab oil.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hz-bTNxpApU
I am no longer allowed to have a violent avatar or belittle other races......but here's a good video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjUNFc6liDU
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Re: The US & Israel Stand Alone: Interview with Jimmy Ca

Unread postby nwildmand » Sun 27 Aug 2006, 13:15:05

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Miki', 'K')eep hoping. All your preemptive wars won't exterminate them. For every one that dies, hunderds of thousands are born everyday.

we are just keeping you busy until your oil runs low. it has been working well for 30 years. when your oil does run low we will have no interest in thet part of the world and you will be free to starve to death in your overpopulated desert wasteland. ever had long pig miki? birth rates are not your ally they are your enemy.
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