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THE Hezbollah Thread (merged)

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Re: The War Nerd: "A Hezbollah Upon All of Thee!"

Unread postby Eli » Fri 04 Aug 2006, 13:27:28

Mekrob we will have to wait and see. I think the that Iran and Hezbollah are much more willing to accept loses than Israel.

I think the nuclear playing field will be leveled shortly , by Iran.

Thanks Miki good point, I had many Persian friends in school very nice people. A lot of people in the US are ignorant of the situation also it is interesting to note how many Christians are cheering for Lebanon's destruction even though a third of the population is Christian.
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Re: The War Nerd: "A Hezbollah Upon All of Thee!"

Unread postby Miki » Fri 04 Aug 2006, 13:47:18

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Eli', 'M')ekrob we will have to wait and see. I think the that Iran and Hezbollah are much more willing to accept loses than Israel.

I think the nuclear playing field will be leveled shortly , by Iran.

Thanks Miki good point, I had many Persian friends in school very nice people. A lot of people in the US are ignorant of the situation also it is interesting to note how many Christians are cheering for Lebanon's destruction even though a third of the population is Christian.


-A person that cheers for a nation's destruction is not a Christian.

-Persians and Arabs, for the most, are very kind hospitable people, even with Americans that visit the Middle East.

-Before the civil war, 70% of Lebanon was Christian. The number went down to 40% after the war, in part due to the massive exodus of Lebanese to other countries during the war, the increase in Palestinian refugees in Lebanon (amounting to 25% of the population) who were pushed away from their land by Israel, the Syrians that Syria forcefulyl nationalized as Lebanese, etc, etc. Lebanese don't want to have a new census for fear of creating political tensions between sects. We'd rather keep the 50/50 government between Christians and Muslims. We don't need more civil wars. Christians, Sunni Muslims, Shiah Muslims, and Druze: we're all Lebanese.
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Re: The War Nerd: "A Hezbollah Upon All of Thee!"

Unread postby mjpete » Fri 04 Aug 2006, 14:16:08

I wouldn't count Israel our quite yet. Can they destroy Hezbollah, probably not. However, there is no way Hezbollah is going to knock off Israel. Democracies always look weak and inept when fighting agressive wars. Change the tune to a war for survival and everything turns. Israel as a state is going to be around for a very long time.
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Re: The War Nerd: "A Hezbollah Upon All of Thee!"

Unread postby Miki » Fri 04 Aug 2006, 14:57:27

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mjpete', 'I') wouldn't count Israel our quite yet. Can they destroy Hezbollah, probably not. However, there is no way Hezbollah is going to knock off Israel. Democracies always look weak and inept when fighting agressive wars. Change the tune to a war for survival and everything turns. Israel as a state is going to be around for a very long time.


Democracies look weak? First, I don't consider Israel a democracy. In a democracy, citizens are not classified into "classes", each class having different privileges.

Second, why do they look weak to you with their huge militias and their super high tech weapons (courtesy of the US)? It is not that they're weak. It's that their enemy is much braver and smarter. Let's give credit where it's due.
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Re: The War Nerd: "A Hezbollah Upon All of Thee!"

Unread postby Eli » Fri 04 Aug 2006, 15:07:49

Miki you are right a person that Cheers for a Nation's destruction is not Christian.

That is why I think Israel is going way too far in Lebanon. Everything they are doing is making the whole world ask, is this right? is this just?

And other than a few right wing chicken hawks, some hardcore Zionists and some very confused Christians, I think the answer is no.

And don't get me wrong either I do not wish to see Israel destroyed either I just think there is far too much bad blood between Israel and her neighbors for a true lasting peace.

You make a very good point about the Palestinians the Lebanese do not want them to become citizens neither do Jordanians and really rightly so. Israel likes to pretend as if this is the fault of the Lebanese or the Jordanians when at the very heart of it is Israel's problem.
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Re: The War Nerd: "A Hezbollah Upon All of Thee!"

Unread postby Miki » Sat 05 Aug 2006, 07:44:56

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Eli', 'A')nd don't get me wrong either I do not wish to see Israel destroyed either I just think there is far too much bad blood between Israel and her neighbors for a true lasting peace.


Neither do I want to see Israel destroyed. But I'd love to see a more moral Israeli government.

I believe there can be a peaceful resolution. No one has tried providing the Palestinians with a fair deal yet. Maybe when that happens, peace will have a better chance. I don't think revenge can keep a war going for so long.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'Y')ou make a very good point about the Palestinians the Lebanese do not want them to become citizens neither do Jordanians and really rightly so. Israel likes to pretend as if this is the fault of the Lebanese or the Jordanians when at the very heart of it is Israel's problem


The situation of the Palestinian refugees in Lebanon is deplorable. They don't even have electricity or water, because the Lebanese government barely provides those services to all Lebanese towns.

I feel very bad for the Palestinians in Lebanon....
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Re: The War Nerd: "A Hezbollah Upon All of Thee!"

Unread postby Eli » Sat 05 Aug 2006, 10:01:23

It appears as if Syria is trying behind closed doors to setup a peace conference to broker a long term peace solution.


Syria

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', ' ')
By Salah Nasrawi
An AP NEWS ANALYSIS
CAIRO (AP)--Syria appears intent on wresting political gains from the standoff in Lebanon, privately telling Arab diplomats that it won't aid cease-fire efforts unless that results in less isolation for it, and more focus on the Israeli occupation of the Golan Heights, diplomats and analysts said Tuesday.
Syria's push to link any cease-fire to what it calls a comprehensive and lasting Mideast peace plan comes at a time when U.S. President George W. Bush also has said he wants a cease-fire linked to a broader Mideast peace plan.
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Re: The War Nerd: "A Hezbollah Upon All of Thee!"

Unread postby Miki » Sat 05 Aug 2006, 12:12:10

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Eli', 'I')t appears as if Syria is trying behind closed doors to setup a peace conference to broker a long term peace solution.


Syria

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', ' ')
By Salah Nasrawi
An AP NEWS ANALYSIS
CAIRO (AP)--Syria appears intent on wresting political gains from the standoff in Lebanon, privately telling Arab diplomats that it won't aid cease-fire efforts unless that results in less isolation for it, and more focus on the Israeli occupation of the Golan Heights, diplomats and analysts said Tuesday.
Syria's push to link any cease-fire to what it calls a comprehensive and lasting Mideast peace plan comes at a time when U.S. President George W. Bush also has said he wants a cease-fire linked to a broader Mideast peace plan.


Eli,

Let me clarify a couple of things here. First of all, the Syrians are no saints. They won't fight in this war because in the last 50 years they have made sure Lebanese fight for *Syrian* interests in *our own* territory. That's what they're doing right now: waiting patiently for Hisballah to give them back the Golan heights while no Syrian blood is spilled.

Both Israel and Syria contributed to the Lebanese civil war by providing weapons to the different factions and instigating fights so that the war would last much longer. Before Syria and Israel intervened in our country, Christians and Muslims were getting along just fine. On top of that, after the civil war was over, both Israel and Syria occupied Lebanon for decades and defended their own interests in our territory, spilling our blood, to save on the blood of their citizens. I have little respect for the Syrian government. They are almost as terrorist as the IDF, just more cowards perhaps. Neither Israel nor Syria give a fu** about Lebanon. They'd both gladly spill Lebanese blood to achieve their own political agendas.

Second, eventhough Hisballah accepts weapons and funding from Syria, they are an *independent* movement. They did not consult with Syria before they engaged in the current war, and it is *not* up to Syria to decide when this will end. Hisballah is not doing this for Syria's interests, but for the defense of Lebanese territory and Arab people.
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More Hezbollah truth

Unread postby erl » Wed 23 Aug 2006, 11:31:07

I should say "truth."

Link

Apparently Hezbollah sank an Australian warship!!!

Sheesh.
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Re: More Hezbollah truth

Unread postby Eli » Wed 23 Aug 2006, 12:02:56

Well erl,

You obviously have never heard of the Muslim concept of

"al-Taqiyya".al-Taqiyya
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Re: More Hezbollah truth

Unread postby erl » Wed 23 Aug 2006, 12:12:53

I confess my ignorance. Thanks for the article.

I think another word for it would be "propaganda."

Seems to be a lot of it floating around.
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Re: More Hezbollah truth

Unread postby nwildmand » Wed 23 Aug 2006, 13:39:12

wow. nice links guys. helps justify my prejudice. honesty is on of the most important virtues a man can have. and now i read that a man can lie to his wife. i alway new arabs were liars and now i know why.

i guess this throws negotiating with arabs out the window because you know their side is alway lieing.
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Re: More Hezbollah truth

Unread postby Miki » Wed 23 Aug 2006, 13:48:39

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('erl', 'I') should say "truth."

Link

Apparently Hezbollah sank an Australian warship!!!

Sheesh.


You should call the IDF and tell them, cause they thought it was an IDF ship, but I'm sure you know better than them.

[web]http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/07/14/mideast/index.html[/web]
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Re: More Hezbollah truth

Unread postby erl » Wed 23 Aug 2006, 14:01:26

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Miki', 'Y')ou should call the IDF and tell them, cause they thought it was an IDF ship, but I'm sure you know better than them.


Miki: No one is claiming an Israeli ship was not struck. Did you see that in my post or in the link posted? If you did, please point it out.

The fact that an Israeli ship was hit is well attested to. This article does not deny this fact.

The article says only that the picture posted by Hezbollah and claiming to be a photograph of the hit on the Israeli ship was, in fact, a photograph taken by the Australian Navy around 1998 as they torpedoed an obsolete Australian naval ship.

Pure propaganda.

Again.
Last edited by erl on Wed 23 Aug 2006, 14:07:50, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: More Hezbollah truth

Unread postby napoleon » Wed 23 Aug 2006, 14:05:49

I'm certain Israel never lied about anything.
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Re: More Hezbollah truth

Unread postby Miki » Wed 23 Aug 2006, 14:09:53

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('nwildmand', 'w')ow. nice links guys. helps justify my prejudice. honesty is on of the most important virtues a man can have. and now i read that a man can lie to his wife. i alway new arabs were liars and now i know why.

i guess this throws negotiating with arabs out the window because you know their side is alway lieing.


I'm quoting from the link:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')ith the above in mind, it becomes evident that a better, and more accurate definition of "al-Taqiyya" is "diplomacy." The true spirit of "al-Taqiyya" is better embodied in the single word "diplomacy" because it encompasses a comprehensive spectrum of behaviors that serve to further the
vested interests of all parties involved.


Thus, al Taqiyya does not mean lieing or propaganda.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'b')]Ibn Shihab said he did not hear that exemption was
granted in anything what the people speak as lie but in three cases: in battle, for bringing reconciliation amongst persons and the narration of the words of the husband to wife, and the narration of the words of a wife to her husband (in a twisted form in order to bring reconciliation between them).
The quote does not say that a man can lie to his wife, but that both can talk to each other tactfully in order to prevent or solve fights. That's one of the basic rules that are taught to couples in (Western) couples counseling.
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Re: More Hezbollah truth

Unread postby erl » Wed 23 Aug 2006, 14:23:00

The linked article on "al-Taqiyya" is replete with terms and phrases like:

"The meaning is that the tongue is permitted to utter anything in a
time of need..."

"concealment"

"utters disbelief"

"Concealing or disguising one's beliefs, convictions, ideas, feelings, opinions, and/or strategies..."

"Dissimulation"

Of course, all are under compulsion and that is the excuse the article says excuses all these.

But, I am still unaware how any of these are anything but euphemisms for "lies."

And I fail to see the compusion that forced Hezbollah to post the picture of the Australian Naval vessel and claim it was a photo of their missle hitting the Israeli ship.
Last edited by erl on Wed 23 Aug 2006, 14:25:37, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: More Hezbollah truth

Unread postby nwildmand » Wed 23 Aug 2006, 14:25:07

diplomacy = concealing ones beliefs = lying.

now who taking shit out of context. you dont give the readers here enough credit. they are reading the article.

its funny how muslims equate lying with diplomacy.
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Re: More Hezbollah truth

Unread postby Dreamtwister » Wed 23 Aug 2006, 14:34:29

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('nwildmand', 'i')ts funny how muslims equate lying with diplomacy.


Looks to me as if it's you who are equating diplomacy with lying. Not metaphorically, not philosophically, but literally.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('nwildmand', 'd')iplomacy = concealing ones beliefs = lying.
The whole of human history is a refutation by experiment of the concept of "moral world order". - Friedrich Nietzsche
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Re: More Hezbollah truth

Unread postby Miki » Wed 23 Aug 2006, 14:39:58

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('erl', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Miki', 'Y')ou should call the IDF and tell them, cause they thought it was an IDF ship, but I'm sure you know better than them.


Miki: No one is claiming an Israeli ship was not struck. Did you see that in my post or in the link posted? If you did, please point it out.


Oh, I see. I misunderstood.

The Herald article did not provide a link for the picture. Do you know how to find the picture in the Mokavemat website? I can't find it.
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