[I_Like_Plants]

Yes.

[basketballjones]

Read Kunstlers diary entry entitled Harry Shearer's War. You'll notice he says he is not "pro-war" but instead is trying to describe what he thinks the war is.

Those people who are anti war need to re-evaluate just how anti war they really are. If they really are as anti war as they say they are then they should give up their cars, airconditioning and trips to walmart. Or, those people must decide what's important and if they dont want to give up their lifestyle then war IS the answer. If these people really wanted to protest the war they would give up using energy.

Btw, It's probably the same people who won't allow any new LNG terminals being built but heat their homes with natural gas.

[sventvkg]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('basketballjones', 'R')ead Kunstlers diary entry entitled Harry Shearer's War. You'll notice he says he is not "pro-war" but instead is trying to describe what he thinks the war is.

Those people who are anti war need to re-evaluate just how anti war they really are. If they really are as anti war as they say they are then they should give up their cars, airconditioning and trips to walmart. Or, those people must decide what's important and if they dont want to give up their lifestyle then war IS the answer. If these people really wanted to protest the war they would give up using energy.

Btw, It's probably the same people who won't allow any new LNG terminals being built but heat their homes with natural gas.

[I_Like_Plants]

Sorry to say it but he's covering his tracks, he's embarassingly pro-war, read through his whole blog. And his book devotes a fair amount of space to slamming those awful Muslims and how they all want to kill us etc.

He's a good writer but I'll take Savinar or Heinberg or Savinar etc any time when all's said and done.

[I_Like_Plants]

Oops or Deffeyes hehe

[seldom_seen]

David Ehrenfeld is an excellent writer. I highly reccomend his books Beginning Again: People and Nature in the New Mellinium as well as The Arrogance of Humanism.

In Beginning Again he pretty much predicts peak oil and lays out the consequences, and that was written back in about 1990.

[MattSavinar]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('basketballjones', 'R')ead Kunstlers diary entry entitled Harry Shearer's War. You'll notice he says he is not "pro-war" but instead is trying to describe what he thinks the war is.

Those people who are anti war need to re-evaluate just how anti war they really are. If they really are as anti war as they say they are then they should give up their cars, airconditioning and trips to walmart. Or, those people must decide what's important and if they dont want to give up their lifestyle then war IS the answer. If these people really wanted to protest the war they would give up using energy.

Btw, It's probably the same people who won't allow any new LNG terminals being built but heat their homes with natural gas.

[MattSavinar]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('sventvkg', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('basketballjones', 'R')ead Kunstlers diary entry entitled Harry Shearer's War. You'll notice he says he is not "pro-war" but instead is trying to describe what he thinks the war is.

Those people who are anti war need to re-evaluate just how anti war they really are. If they really are as anti war as they say they are then they should give up their cars, airconditioning and trips to walmart. Or, those people must decide what's important and if they dont want to give up their lifestyle then war IS the answer. If these people really wanted to protest the war they would give up using energy.

Btw, It's probably the same people who won't allow any new LNG terminals being built but heat their homes with natural gas.

[Sgs-Cruz]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('basketballjones', 'R')ead Kunstlers diary entry entitled Harry Shearer's War. You'll notice he says he is not "pro-war" but instead is trying to describe what he thinks the war is.

Those people who are anti war need to re-evaluate just how anti war they really are. If they really are as anti war as they say they are then they should give up their cars, airconditioning and trips to walmart. Or, those people must decide what's important and if they dont want to give up their lifestyle then war IS the answer. If these people really wanted to protest the war they would give up using energy.

Btw, It's probably the same people who won't allow any new LNG terminals being built but heat their homes with natural gas.

[julianj]

Got it today and read it in one session. I reckon it's a must intro to PO.

Yes, there are daffy bits: in a low-energy future I find it hard to believe Asian pirates will make it all the way over the Pacific. More believeable is his warnings about the Mexican border.

V good and readable, with some of Kunstler's trademark humour. Such as the mention of his neighbour with an antiwar poster and two SUVs. Not quite getting the bigger picture, Kunstler feels

[Byron100]

I picked up a copy of Kunstler's book at the local Border's last week. They had it in the "new nonfiction section" at the front of the store...must be a big seller now that everyone is freaking out about the gas/oil thing due to Kantrina.

As with most books of this type, I think you have to take it with a grain of salt, but he made some very valid points about what's to come with the coming energy shock, especially regarding his comments concerning shortages of NG which I feel is the big bugaboo that's going to clobber us long before the oil shortages kick in full force...it certainly has me considering installing that wood stove sooner rather than later!

As for his musings concering the war in Iraq, I think he's just being on-the-point about it...I mean, it's rather obvious even to the casual observer that we're there for the oil as opposed to the so-called "War on Terror"...even if it wasn't for 9-11, we were destined to invade the Middle East sooner or later, and as much as I detest the idea, we're in for the long haul in that part of the world.

The thing that bothered me the most about this book was his unrelenting diatribe against the American way of living...it's one thing to point out our unstainable way of living, but I don't think he fully understands the workings of free-market economics, and how self-correcting it is...I mean, if and when the Second Great Depression hits (my term), there will be so much demand destruction that P.O. will actually be more like a broad plateau that could stretch out for decades before supplies get tight enough to actually bring down all of Western civilization, unlike which he insinuates throughout his book. Also, I don't think Kunstler is aware of the potential for greatly increased energy efficiencies once oil gets expensive enough...such as cars getting 80-100 mpg, people not living so far from their jobs, vastly increased support for mass transit and so on that will made a huge difference in how much energy we really need to consume to maintain a reasonable standard of living.

But overall, I thought it was a good read...I burned through it in less than a day...lol, and I do hope that it will impress upon an unwary public that we really do have some huge challenges facing us as a nation and the world. But a little bit of optimism does go a long ways even in the face of what's coming.

Byron

[ashurbanipal]

I didn't see Kuntsler as actually supporting the Iraq war. I viewed his comments in the context of an historian discussing something from the point of view of the person or group making a decision. Historical writing employs this device rather frequently. In this case, for instance, when he says:

"But there were other reasons to go to war"

he means:

"To those in charge at the time, despite the controversy, there were other reasons to go to war."

At least, that's how I read it.

I thought the rest of the book was very good; his interpretation of history from the start of the 20th century was quite lucid and absorbing. I don't find his predictions implausible. I would say right now that, with a few exceptional areas such as Atlanta, Orlando, Miami, and New Orleans (pre-Katrina), the Deep South is already a de facto separate entity, albeit one with strong political and economic ties to the rest of the United States. Culturally, it's vastly different from other areas of the country (which, in fairness, are themselves vastly dissimilar).

[NugBlazer]

This is the best book I've read on Peak Oil. The last chapter is sobering, but true, IMO.

[madrid]

I read The Long Emergency right when it came out. Before that I had been reading his daily blog at www.kunstler.com for a great deal of time.

Kunstler hates Arabs and Muslims and loves Israel as much as he loves the US. He deplores Muslim fundamentalism and Christian fundamentalism, but he doesn't even notice Jewish fundamentalism. I believe he is a secular Jew, but I wonder what he, a child of the sixties, would think of things like the orthodox Jewish custom of Niddah, by which the male is forbidden from touching his wife for 12 days from the beginning of his wife's menstuation. And if you don't think plenty of people practice such wacky stuff, visit New Jersey or Brooklyn, where I live. I am not defending Christian and Muslim fundamentalists-- just funny how they are the only ones who get such a bad rap.

He basically sees our interests and Israel's interests as one in the same.

I disagree with him very much on this point and I also very much disagree with him on the issue of the war, which he basically supports.

My attitude is that if humans are fundamentally as violent and vicious, as Kunstler sometimes portrays us, then I, along with the rest of the biosphere, will gladly celebrate our extermination from the planet. But I still admire him a huge amount for getting the message out.

[PenultimateManStanding]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('madrid', '
') if humans are fundamentally as violent and vicious, as Kunstler sometimes portrays us, then I, along with the rest of the biosphere, will gladly celebrate our extermination from the planet.

[eastbay]

My attitude is that if humans are fundamentally as violent and vicious, as Kunstler sometimes portrays us, then I, along with the rest of the biosphere, will gladly celebrate our extermination from the planet.


Madrid,

Yeah, 'if' is your key word here. Of course humans aren't quite that vicious and violent, but can be directed that way by misdirected individuals in positions of power, as we all are well aware. Humans are fundamentally kind and 'good', but when desperation hits human 'good' can be subordinated to basic survival. And humanity has entered desperate times.

Also, it's fairly obvious that Kunstler's apparent support for the Stupid Oil War really boils down to support for Israel by removing a nearby threat. The US military occupation of Iraq has provided the USA with nothing whatsoever... and most know this... so what else could it be?

[Revi]

The US may have invaded Iraq as a Defensive move, because they were selling oil in euros. We may be stuck with the move now. Why else would the Neocons have made such a stupid move?

We are stuck with it now. The dollar is tanking again. What is their next move? Will they bow to the inevitable? Doubtful.

[WorriedInTheCity]

I have never before paid attention to peak oil. "The Long Emergency" terrified me. I came to this site to answer questions. (From ignorant to interested in 3 days time)

I wish those of you with knowledge on Peak Oil would not focus so much on the war (we all have our beliefs.) I hope you will take the opportunity to briefly educate newbies who will be desperate for information. We want to hear if you believe his main points are accurate and where you think he is inaccurate.

I hope to figure out on this site:
1. Is Peak Oil real. It sure seems to be.
2. Are we really running out of natural gas?
3. Is it true that alternative fuel sources like solar/wind/biodiesel/ethanol are not sustainable without the petroleum platform. (The law of thermodynamics sees to make a lot of sense.)
4. What do you think of his predications for the future?

I agree with the author that the globe will have to undergo a painful population contraction to preindustrial population levels. I think being on a farm away from desperate people in a place with rainfall would be the safest bet initially. I disagree with the author about the dangers suburbia and the safety of cities. I think suburbia is better suited for raising food than the concrete cities are.

[o2ny]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('WorriedInTheCity', 'I') wish those of you with knowledge on Peak Oil would not focus so much on the war (we all have our beliefs.) I hope you will take the opportunity to briefly educate newbies who will be desperate for information. We want to hear if you believe his main points are accurate and where you think he is inaccurate.

[Ladyluck]

"The Long Emergency" is why I am on this website. I was in the library looking for Jared Diamond's book Collapse when I saw it. I thought it looked interesting. I couldn't believe that we were so close to peak oil but no one ever said anything. I read more books about peak oil.
I really liked what he said about suburbia being an untenable way of life in the future. I wasn't happy because I live in suburbia. I also live in the Rocky Mountain region which he was not keen on. I think he said that Salt Lake city was one of the most car dependant cities in America. Oh well