[rogerhb]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jupiters_release', 'I') wish I had the rest of my natural life ... but alas as a real NYC doomer I will most likely be in the inital waves of die-off.

[aldente]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gego', ' ') If I concluded that the positive outweighed the negatives I would not be spending time on this site.

[Neuromancer]

My view is so much similar with Gego's....
I keep on doing what I have to do daily to help my family.
I will do that as long as I live, even if I'll have to do IT jobs, working the fields or .... else.

I learn from the past and look in the future. The wave of changes will affect us all, wether we like it or not.

What keeps me going? Hope. And something else. Awareness. I try to live as much as aware as I can.

[alecifel]

I consider the incredible fortune of my circumstances and thank Providence for it.

I was born at the right time to come of age at the peak of human civilization. It's a downhill view both ways. WOW. What an incredible time to be alive!

I happened to grow up in the middle of Oklahoma where the ratio of arable land to population is positive, there's natural gas in spades, we can throw one switch and isolate our electrical system from the national grid, and frankly, we don't have to far to fall because our economic development was stifled by the Great D and never really caught up. In fact, in terms of SOL and pop density Oklahoma isn't too far from where Cuba was prior to 1990. After PO it'll probably look a lot like Cuba does now.

My children have the benefit of being born into a time when the amassed sum of human knowledge gathering is there for them to peruse. That is the purpose we have assigned ourselves in this mess.. the wizards, the keepers of old books. When I was 10 and saw "The Day After" it occurred to me that someone would have to actively work to carry knowledge on past a cataclysm. It has sort of been my prime mover ever since.

So what keeps me going? The fear that centuries of learning and teaching might be lost. Without books humanity can be reduced from homo colossus to a club-wielding, drooling brute again in two generations. What a waste that would be.

I don't think PO is going to be so bad in North America, our pop density is just too low. Large cities are not the place to be, but you do have the freedom to relocate. Now when it comes to Africa and Asia, well... like I always say, you'll be able to stand on Key West and smell the funk in a strong westerly breeze. I also think Europe will be overrun by a new Mongolian Horde led by a new Ghenghis Kan on a murderous quest for a can of lima beans (and Hershey's kisses).

[Neuromancer]

"I don't think PO is going to be so bad in North America, our pop density is just too low." -> just remember how dependant on oil US is. Then, how many of the US citizens know and can work arable land? I bet not many. P.S. Come to Romania and you will see that over 70% of the population knows how to work the land, we have 40% of population living agrarian style.

And, the part of Europe being overun by "mongolians"... don't forget the nukes. Any atack upon Europe (Rusia included) will be dealt with full force. And there is a ton of land between China and actual Europe.

Anyway, I intend moving to Australia in the next 2 years . That's a good place to live. At least for a while.

[alecifel]

The Europe thing was actually a joke, har har.. I think the Mongols are what kicked off the "arms race" in Europe that eventually led to the modern lethality of warfare, and rightfully so.

Not very many Americans know a thing about growing food. So those of us that can will make one heck of a good living growing it and teaching others to do it. I'm not saying there won't be some casualties. Your "Katrina Victim" crowd - mostly surplus population that has no economic function. They'll try that looting stuff again and it will get them a proper response.. .3030 full metal jacket. All in all I see maybe a million going down here but a stabilisation after that, after all, if we shut most of the cars down (high prices will do that) we have enough oil to run our tractors and make our fertilizers. But I think you can expect the US to no longer be exporting grain to Africa and Asia. Future food drops from our humanitarian missions are going to consist of a Wal-Mart seed packet with a hand scribbled note saying "best of luck!"

[Heineken]

"Doomer" is a relative term, since individually we're all doomed. The cornucopians and starry-eyed techno-optimists too.

We're all going to die, some of us far sooner than we might expect, some of us later than we dreamed.

There is also an intermediate state of great significance---chronic illness and debilitating injury. These will be visited on most of us well before the final end. Being sick or hurt can change your outlook and opinions drastically.

I think that the fascination Jack and others speak of in being "witnesses" to civlizational collapse will quickly wear off as the unpleasantnesses strike home for us personally, and as we discover with horror the gaping holes in our well-laid plans for survival.

I remember being very excited as Hurricane Isabel approached me a few years back: I was going to be in the midst of a real hurricane and feel its power! But the reality wasn't much fun: we had no power for a week and lost all our refrigerated and frozen food. I had to clear up mountains of downed trees and branches from roads and paths through our land, a process that still isn't really finished. It was miserable, and just a taste of what's coming.

Anyway, what keeps me going is the same thing that keeps the man on death row going: my next breath, my next meal, my next fantasy of what might-have-been.

[Neuromancer]

"Anyway, what keeps me going is the same thing that keeps the man on death row going: my next breath, my next meal, my next fantasy of what might-have-been."

Best overview. From the strictly personal POV and strictly realistic .

[Omnitir]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Heineken', '
')"Doomer" is a relative term, since individually we're all doomed. The cornucopians and starry-eyed techno-optimists too.
We're all going to die

[marko]

When I first learned about peak oil and the die-off that it implies, I freaked out and went through a kind of a grieving process. Mostly I was grieving for my dreams of a future that now seems impossible.

Over a year later, though, my awareness of the very hard times and possible premature death ahead has, strangely, sharpened my appreciation of the present. Now I savor all of the comforts and delights that a world not yet quite unraveled can still offer.

Meanwhile, I am taking steps to improve my prospects of surviving post-peak. If I do survive into old age (mid 40s now), I know that my life will be harder and probably bleaker than it would have been if the oil had kept flowing. But I will still take pleasure in the sky at sunrise and sunset, in birds singing, in the smell of moist earth after a rain, in a good, wholesome meal, or in the smile of a baby.

Even if I am hungry most of the time and war is raging around me, I will seek out those bits of beauty and joy that will still make life worthwhile.

[TorrKing]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Omnitir', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Heineken', '
')"Doomer" is a relative term, since individually we're all doomed. The cornucopians and starry-eyed techno-optimists too.
We're all going to die

[Fergus]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('marko', 'W')hen I first learned about peak oil and the die-off that it implies, I freaked out and went through a kind of a grieving process. Mostly I was grieving for my dreams of a future that now seems impossible.

Over a year later, though, my awareness of the very hard times and possible premature death ahead has, strangely, sharpened my appreciation of the present. Now I savor all of the comforts and delights that a world not yet quite unraveled can still offer.

Meanwhile, I am taking steps to improve my prospects of surviving post-peak. If I do survive into old age (mid 40s now), I know that my life will be harder and probably bleaker than it would have been if the oil had kept flowing. But I will still take pleasure in the sky at sunrise and sunset, in birds singing, in the smell of moist earth after a rain, in a good, wholesome meal, or in the smile of a baby.

Even if I am hungry most of the time and war is raging around me, I will seek out those bits of beauty and joy that will still make life worthwhile.

[eric_b]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rwwff', 'D')oomerland..... Somedays I am, somedays I'm not. When I'm feeling solidly in the doomer camp, my reason for focussing energy on the problem is my daughter. I want to give her every possible asset that I can, to give her the best chance of survival in a situation where others, a large number of others, do not survive.

Maybe its a quest for genetic immortality.

[eric_b]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Omnitir', '
')Not if technology allows humanity to transcend the natural world…

[TorrKing]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('eric_b', '
')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rwwff', '
')To be blunt, we are a species that is "designed" for a 30-40 year typical lifespan, in the wild. Thus, I've already collected and spent all the years that I am entitled to, the rest are gravy. That gravy could be frittered away on pointless vacations, and reckless pleasures; or it could be spent on my progeny.

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('FatherOfTwo', ' ') I'm curious:

what keeps you ticking?

Do you just accept it and carry on? If so, are you living today as though there is no tomorrow? Or are you permanently depressed?

Other?

Please know I'm not trying to belittle or be derogatory, I'm just really trying to understand the unwavering position of the eternal doomer.

[aflurry]

A friend of mine uses the term "Long-View Optimist."

I sort of feel like if you are depressed by the fall of civilization, you aren't taking it seriously enough. I know that sounds a little backward, but i think the issue is a little too immense even to be contained in our judgements of good and bad.

You can be depressed about the death of a loved one, your girlfriend dumping you, or burning a slice of toast. Those things are sized right to be contained in your emotional envelope.

You and everyone you know were going to die anyway, collapse or not. So it's sort of six-of-one-half-dozen-of-your-mother. And really, it was going to collapse eventually anyway. You just happen to be here now to see it. So shrug your shoulders and keep an eye on the toaster.

[alecifel]

Pretty much same story here springcreek.. adopted when my brother and sister were moving out. Most of my friends are ten and twenty years older than me and because my dad grew up in the depression era (later half) I was raised with some habits that most Gen-X people just don't understand. When I started homesteading my property people thought I was crazy. Maybe I am.. I don't know. People think they've got a guy who lives in an RV in the middle of nowhere figured out until they see me buying bars of silver, then they have to start making assumptions all over again!

[Heineken]

The problem for the cornucopians and "optimists" is that their case weakens every day, and the opposing case strengthens. I have been observing this trend closely since I was old enough to think about it, back in the early 1960s, when even as a child I was saddened by suburban sprawl.

I am open to developments that offer real hope, but there just aren't any. Every one of the fantasies we're offered---nuclear fusion, ethanol, dumping mountains of iron into the ocean and clouds of sulfur into the sky---is just that, a fantasy without substance or at least without practicality, though of colossal proportions. Meanwhile, we refuse as a civilization to embrace the only solutions that could work, like powering down, controlling our numbers, and allying ourselves with nature.

Meanwhile, back at the ranch:

PO is a looming reality.
The human population continues to rise.
Quality of life continues to fall, including now in the US itself.
The environment continues to deteriorate---at a quickening pace.
Mass extinction is well under way.
Major new threats, like global warming and oceanic death and groundwater depletion, have appeared, any one of which could finish us off.
The political mess is worse than ever.
Etc., etc. (it's a long list, right?)

It's hopeless, and I am hopeless about the future, although I agree that every day should be seized while it can be and lived to the fullest.

[FatherOfTwo]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', '
')
That this question even gets asked is what makes me a doomer.

The question really is: can you accept reality and learn to cope and adapt? Especially, when the reality is of your own doing?

My answer: yes.

Why is that such a hard position to accept?

The eternal doomer accepts the reality of the unwavering eternal "facts."

The difference between the cornucopian and the doomer may be the inability of the former to accept reality.