[Specop_007]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('skateari', 'A')merica is doing a spedid job, just look at specop for example. So shose the path of denying the facts and possilbity to gain broader knowledge, and continue to support the corrupt government. So how does this make you any better then the brainwashed citizens in Nazi germany? If you cant add up the fact that

1) we are running out of oil, and the US needs it
2) in order to buy a war, you need to invoke terror, and justify the war
3) our government is corrupt, and has been proven so. But it does not seem to make it onto the media due to censorship and propaganda tactics.
4)our government is now killing 100,000+ peaple, women and children included, for the sake of our greedy intentions.

So if you cant those things up, and at least make it a possibility the US planned the attacks, then you cant do simple level math. It all makes sense, it all adds up, and all the facts point that way. Denial will get you in the same situations the Germans were in, you will be no different from them.

[skateari]

So some higher level thinking confuses you... This is my fault how? 9/11 was and the wars that ensued was the governments reaction to the future effects of peakoil, therefor its a topic we should discuss. You ask me for proof and you get confused, and tell me I am wrong... You say you cant believe it and things like this coulden't happen, even though they have happend. Its documented history, and so far as Americas recent documented history shows similar comparisons, and we can only guess on our future. But there is proof that our government was behind it, behind 9/11, behind funding it, behind hiding the evidence. Its known, and its exposed, but not to the average american joe, only to the people who dont get confused and are willing to peice the evidence together. there is not just proof, its overwhelming proof, and they wont let it get out to the public, for the US public is its sole base that they must fool. Conspiry theory is how our government wants you to look at it, however its much more then that, its factual, proven and obvious that our government murdered people on September 11th, for the sake of Oil, and giving justice for a war in Iraq. Similar to Hitlers invasion of poland. Its happening, all you have to do is have the MAN power to face the truth. Are you a big enough man to question your all mighty government?

[Specop_007]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('skateari', 'S')o some higher level thinking confuses you... This is my fault how? 9/11 was and the wars that ensued was the governments reaction to the future effects of peakoil, therefor its a topic we should discuss. You ask me for proof and you get confused, and tell me I am wrong... You say you cant believe it and things like this coulden't happen, even though they have happend. Its documented history, and so far as Americas recent documented history shows similar comparisons, and we can only guess on our future. But there is proof that our government was behind it, behind 9/11, behind funding it, behind hiding the evidence. Its known, and its exposed, but not to the average american joe, only to the people who dont get confused and are willing to peice the evidence together. there is not just proof, its overwhelming proof, and they wont let it get out to the public, for the US public is its sole base that they must fool. Conspiry theory is how our government wants you to look at it, however its much more then that, its factual, proven and obvious that our government murdered people on September 11th, for the sake of Oil, and giving justice for a war in Iraq. Similar to Hitlers invasion of poland. Its happening, all you have to do is have the MAN power to face the truth. Are you a big enough man to question your all mighty government?

[skateari]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')his isnt higher level thinking, this is simple basic concepts. If Party A hates Party B, and Party B has done some underhanded deeds, dont you think Party A would be jumping up and down like a schoolgirl who has to pee to expose those connections??

[skateari]

[quote]1,000 Turn Out In Oregon to Hear Mike Ruppert Expose
Government Complicity in the WTC, Pentagon Attacks
by Mike Ruppert - web posted 8 Dec '01)
Michael Ruppert is editor and publisher of 'From The Wilderness' (FTW) newsletter 'From The Wilderness' Publications (FTW), www.copvcia.com. All Rights Reserved. May be recopied, distributed or posted on the worldwide web for non-profit purposes only.
FTW, December 5, 2001 – On November 28th an estimated 1,000 people came from as far away as Seattle and San Francisco to Portland State University to see FTW Publisher/Editor Mike Ruppert give a 2 ½ hour lecture and documentary presentation on the events surrounding the September 11th attacks and their aftermath. Starting with an offer of $1,000 to anyone who could show that any of the sources he cited were not authentic or misrepresented, Ruppert launched into an display of more than 40 visual exhibits showing government complicity in and foreknowledge of the attacks.

The event was organized by the campus newspaper The Rear Guard and its editor Dimitris Desyllas. “I never expected that we would have this kind of turnout,â€

[Guest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Specop_007', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('skateari', 'S')o some higher level thinking confuses you... This is my fault how? 9/11 was and the wars that ensued was the governments reaction to the future effects of peakoil, therefor its a topic we should discuss. You ask me for proof and you get confused, and tell me I am wrong... You say you cant believe it and things like this coulden't happen, even though they have happend. Its documented history, and so far as Americas recent documented history shows similar comparisons, and we can only guess on our future. But there is proof that our government was behind it, behind 9/11, behind funding it, behind hiding the evidence. Its known, and its exposed, but not to the average american joe, only to the people who dont get confused and are willing to peice the evidence together. there is not just proof, its overwhelming proof, and they wont let it get out to the public, for the US public is its sole base that they must fool. Conspiry theory is how our government wants you to look at it, however its much more then that, its factual, proven and obvious that our government murdered people on September 11th, for the sake of Oil, and giving justice for a war in Iraq. Similar to Hitlers invasion of poland. Its happening, all you have to do is have the MAN power to face the truth. Are you a big enough man to question your all mighty government?

[Guest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Specop_007', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Guest', 'S')pecop,

You really need to read the following article:

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/reich.html

An excerpt:

The reality was that the German people, as individuals, had lost their courage. The German government preferred it that way as a fearful people are easier to rule than a courageous one. But the German people didn't wish to lose their self-image of courage. So, when confronted with a situation demanding individual courage, in the form of a government gone wrong, the German people simply pretended that the situation did not exist. And in that simple self-deception lay the ruin of an entire nation and the coming of the second World War.

When the Reichstag burned down, most Germans simply refused to believe suggestions that the fire had been staged by Hitler himself. They were afraid to. But so trapped were the Germans by their belief in their own bravery that they willed themselves to be blind to the evidence before their eyes, so that they could nod in agreement with Der Fuhrer while still imagining themselves to have courage, even as they avoided the one situation which most required real courage; to stand up to Hitler's lies and deceptions.

Guest

[Guest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Specop_007', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('skateari', 'S')o some higher level thinking confuses you... This is my fault how? 9/11 was and the wars that ensued was the governments reaction to the future effects of peakoil, therefor its a topic we should discuss. You ask me for proof and you get confused, and tell me I am wrong... You say you cant believe it and things like this coulden't happen, even though they have happend. Its documented history, and so far as Americas recent documented history shows similar comparisons, and we can only guess on our future. But there is proof that our government was behind it, behind 9/11, behind funding it, behind hiding the evidence. Its known, and its exposed, but not to the average american joe, only to the people who dont get confused and are willing to peice the evidence together. there is not just proof, its overwhelming proof, and they wont let it get out to the public, for the US public is its sole base that they must fool. Conspiry theory is how our government wants you to look at it, however its much more then that, its factual, proven and obvious that our government murdered people on September 11th, for the sake of Oil, and giving justice for a war in Iraq. Similar to Hitlers invasion of poland. Its happening, all you have to do is have the MAN power to face the truth. Are you a big enough man to question your all mighty government?

[Specop_007]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Anonymous', '
')
Quite with all your pro-Bush/furher propaganda and get some brains. Your surrounded by people on this board who are trying to wake you up and all you can do is mock them and post picturs of highly offensive cartoons.

That one with Bush branding the the tied up democratic donkey? Reminded me of cartoons that circulated in 1940's Germany. Except it was Hitler branding whatever was being used to represent Jewish people.

Guest

[Madpaddy]

Article in "The Irish Examiner" today

Fundamentalists in Europe can learn from American openness

By Terry Prone
PLEASE, could we just shut up about the American presidential election? Now we have it sorted, I mean. Now that we’ve established the fault lies with redneck born agains over there who voted for him in such numbers.

It would nearly put you off the Christmas shopping trip to New York, so it would.

Up to last week, we thought America was a big diverse society, but this week we learned they were really one big Bible belt hiding 51 million religious fundamentalists from us. Gun totin’ religious maniacs, all of them: anti-abortion, anti-stem-cell research. Beer drinkin’, boot scootin’, Bible-totin’ unsophisticates, too thick to deserve democracy.

Or that’s what liberal Ireland, Britain, Europe and east coast America would have us believe.

It boils my brains to be so embarrassed by people I normally agree with.

This mass-stereotyping of millions of Americans is outrageous, idiotic and stupidly patronising. It is bad loser-ship brought to a blindly arrogant level.

I stood in an American firehouse the week of the election, in one of those southern states currently being portrayed as populated by spittin’, whistling,’ whittlin’ dumb conservatives. The room was dominated by three big fridges.

“We gotta lotta gourmet cooks here,â€

[pip]

Good article.

[skateari]

Okay, so you come on here asking for us to futher our research, explain this to you, and give you some facts, some proof. Then we lay out the proof on a silver platter for you to feed off of. But no, your confused, you dont want to talk about the subject and politics are to much for you. And you called me the fool..

thats the problem with most Americans, they cant handle the truth and they ignore it, and then they are no better and in the same boat as Nazi supporters. You are no different. So if you feel confused, like its to much for you to bear, and we 'shoulden't talk about it here', dont call me a fool and tell me to back it up, then to only say dont talk about it. Americans have to be some of the most ingorant people in the world, and your living proof of it.

[Marco]

Boy, I thought this forum was meant to be a meeting place for like-minded people. Shows how dumb I am.

Hey 007,

could you explain to me what a survivalist actually is? You say you don't trust the gov. Fair enough. I would suggest you try and keep an open mind to the 9-11 thing though. Skateari provided some pretty good critiques here.

Like many people I accepted the official version for over 2 years. So I am a late convert to the cause. I read almost nothing about it-except what was in the media. I was skeptical of some aspects- like pinning the blame so fast on bin Laden and IDing the hijackers- while the same time saying we had no idea this was coming. Then I looked at the Pentagon photos closely. Where indeeds was the wreckage?I looked at the 'crash site' of Ft93. Again- where was the wreckage? From there the whole official version unravelled like overcooked spagetti.

I don't want to re-hash all the reasons why I believe it was an inside job. I will say that it was reading up on 911 that brought me to peak oil. This is how. I was boring a friend about the issue some time ago. I was just getting going when Glenn asks, 'OK- what was the motive??' I went 'oh-yeah' Patriot Act, police state, 'war on terror'. It sounded lame even to me.

So I thought- OK what WAS the motive? Was it just to further US strategic policy, further the cause of Zionism in Israel, insurance/stock market scams? None of these sounded plausible by themselves. Then I went 'Doh! and hit on PO. There it was- the whole ugly rationale. Everything fitted.

Don't get me wrong here. I don't believe one should start with a priori assumptions. You know, have a theory then cobble together some evidence to fit it. THAT IS A CONSPIRACY THEORY. You do have to be careful to not accept opinion or supposition dressed up as fact. Some sites do this to their detriment.

I am curoius to know why you accept the reality of PO and its implications, but not its connection to 9-11? Most people accept that it was the kicker for all that happened since then. Indeed it could be argued that much of what has occured could not have if not for 9-11. the only difference is that most people still say 'well, Bush took advantage of the tragedy', without considering the possibility that they caused it. So, its OK to regard Bush et al. as mendacious bastards, but not as traitors of the first rank.

The corporate media have done a fantastic job of supressing any alternative view. To suggest that 9-11 was an inside job is almost traitorous. Thus nearly all the debate is confined to the net. There is no possibility of open discussion in the media regarding the gaping holes in the official story. I find it hard to see how alternate views could force themselves into the 'mainstream'.In fact the story itself works because it is simple and keeps being repeated like a mantra. Any holes that do emerge- such as just what were those war games on 9-11?- are glossed over with stuff like- 'there were war games- so what- the terrorists must have piggy-backed their ops on top of them'.

Please keep an open mind- and just because some people like to create wedpages from the basement does'nt make them idiots. Besides, just cause your paranoid does'nt mean people are'nt out to get you.

regards marco

[skateari]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '1')00,000?? Oh yes, the number the MEDIA gave you right?
http://slate.msn.com/id/2108887/

Now, is it 8,000 or 100,000?? Because I'm confused. Some media says 100,000, but another source is saying that number is nearly a flat out lie.... Now, which source are you using? The near lie of 100,000? And you want me to take this argument seriously?

[Laurasia]

Heard about this today on the Radio and then found the following link:

http://edition.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/asiap ... wellvisit/

Perhaps Jeb is being set up as a follow-up candidate for President in 2008?

This fact-finding tour would be a perfect forum to launch W's brother onto the world stage in BIG WAY. What a perfect photo-op. I do not find that the reasons provided, as to why Jeb Bush has been picked, hold water. The outside world does not know Jeb Bush, so foreigners will not be impressed by the idea of W sending his brother. Instead, I believe it is strictly to play to the home crowd, who unlike the foreigners, will be impressed (one way or the other).

Regards,

L.

[savethehumans]

That was the first thought that crossed MY mind, too, when I read your subject line, Laurasia!

Yeah, Jeb Bush, future Presidential candidate. And they've got the perfect explanation, too: the guy's Governor of a state that was hit by untold devastation by four straight hurricanes; who better to visit this disaster-torn region?

Hummmm...wonder if this has anything to do with Dubya upping the aid money from $35M to $350M? Is Jeb gonna be delivering that dough? Well, no matter. Whatever the reason for the aid, I'm just glad those people are getting the help they need!

[KiddieKorral]

At least I won't have to be in the same state as Jebbie for a little while.

About the aid money: The $350M is just a pledge, not an actual contribution. It's sort of the same thing that happened with the African AIDS relief money; we pledged $5B, but they haven't seen a cent of it in Africa.

[TripleGemini]

<<>>Perhaps Jeb is being set up as a follow-up candidate for President in 2008?<<>>

My first thought exactly.

[TrueKaiser]

ditto then followed by one of the bush faimly daughters.

[savethehumans]

Yeah, comedians are getting a LOT of material off the concept of a President Jenna Bush!

Personally, I think it's Barbara the Younger we need to watch out for. But by then, the world will have gone to The Devil's Abode in a handbasket of coal, anyway, so what does it matter?