[Peepers]

That's only the cost of gasoline per mile, not the cost of driving. The cost of driving is 44.5 cents per mile according to the IRS (see http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/art ... 08,00.html or http://www.turbotax.com/articles/taking ... tions.html ). Those costs do not include parking expenses, which are accounted for and deducted separately.

AAA has some interesting numbers to consider. They state that, for a car owned and driven 15,000 miles per year, the average cost to the owner is $7,800, or 56 cents per mile. When you apply that 56 cents per mile to your commute, you may be shocked at the figure at be tempted to give up that second or third car which sits idle 95 percent of the time.

[Lighthouse]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Revi', '.')..

Only us peak aware people stand a chance. ...

[green_achers]

Well, this may be the begining of a painful but necessary (and probably inevitable) adjustment in a lot of places. People who buy in Stockton expecting to commute to the Bay Area deserve whatever they get IMO.

In case I sound elitist, I was guilty of that insane life in California for a while with an 80 mile (1-way) commute for the last part of it. I like to think my situation was a little more defendable due to my family situation, but it was still insane and ultimately unsustainable. And I always knew it was not a viable long-term option, so I was working on an escape. I just can't understand how someone could have had that life be part of their plan.

[Zardoz]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('green_achers', '.')..I was guilty of that insane life in California for a while with an 80 mile (1-way) commute for the last part of it...I just can't understand how someone could have that life be part of their plan.

[pea-jay]

Yeah but thats time spent alone. Believe it or not, a number of people welcome this time not at work and not at home.

I think it's nuts. I prefer my commuting time as short as possible, by foot or bike.

[gg3]

...because the house in Stockton only costs 50% of your take-home pay, whereas the house in Oakland would cost 60% and the house in San Francisco would cost 80%.

So yes, some people buy monster houses and drown in their own debt-ridden excrement. But far more are just trying to buy any house at all, in this usurious meth-monster bulemic economy we have, and end up getting screwed coming & going.

What we're seeing is the edge of the social darwinist nightmare that is going to shred our social fabric like a cloth napkin tossed into a blender.

[Roy]

RElated to people buying more house than they can afford:

I just recently purchased a house and 7 acres in NC. Cost me $135k.

That's about what my house in Baton Rouge sold for and what my wife and I can afford as a note in just about any scenario (we believe).

Interestingly, the mortgage co's that we contacted approved us for $350k loan. That was with me unemployed and my wife self employed. Lunacy in my book.

10 years ago, we would have been lucky to get approval for a $1000 per month note. The $350k would have been closer to $3k per month.

Seems like lots of folks that I knew in LA would take the most they could get from the lending institution. Not too bright in my book.

People have lost the ability to budget, to see what they can really afford. The lenders have done their best to exacerbate this problem. After all, who wins with the high housing costs in bubble areas? Let's see, realtors, builders, inspectors, appraisers, mortgage originators, lenders, title attorneys, and more I can't think of.

No wonder this country is sitting on a powder keg, just watching the fuse burn closer and closer to the keg.

Greed is what has caused this and greed has pretty much driven the entire capitalistic system to the brink of self-imposed extinction.

[Revi]

Now is the time to get a small, sustainable house. You may get ridiculed for it, but it's a smart move. The guys in the conference room were laughing at my reel mower. I have a tiny lawn, and it takes only about 5 minutes whether I use the gas mower (if it starts) or the reel mower. I shrunk my truck to a ranger and got some ribbing too. They are beginning to see things my way now that gas is around $3. Everything we have done seems like a brilliant move, in retrospect. Peak oil is a lens through which one can see the world clearly.

[Revi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mekrob', 'Y')ou know Revi, I've read some posts here about how some PO'ers (or maybe it was all of them) are haughty and elitist. I never got a feeling of that until I read your post. Thanks!

[Pops]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('On July 5, 2004 I', ' ')Today small acreages many miles from large urban centers have great upward price pressure as commuters want more land at lower prices and are willing to drive daily to get it.
… As the cost of fuel escalates and the value of bedroom community real estate tanks…

[Eli]

It is really not the cost of commuting that is hurting these people it is the fact that they have bought too much house.

I have a friend that was in serious financial trouble he had 125,000 in car loans,credit card debt up to his eyeballs and was bouncing checks.
He even talked to a lawyer about filing bankruptcy.

Well luckily for him things turned around for him in his business in a big way and this was just over the past couple of months.

Did he pay off some debt and get out from under some of his bills?

Hell no!

He took his new found cash and got a bank to give him a loan for a half million dollar home and he is trying to finagle 20,000 into the deal so he can furnish the place.(If you can't afford to furnish a 500,000 dollar home it is a safe bet that you can't afford the house either.) The guy was maxed out before and is on his way to maxing out again. The only thing that has changed is he has longer rope now to hang himself with.

[DoctorDoom]

One problem I see with making purely financial calcuations about long commutes is that it ignores likely crisis-response measures such as rationing. A lot of people seem to think they'll be able to pay $5 or even $10 / gallon and still make a go of it. At some point, though, scarcity will cause the government to step in with rationing in order to ensure that dwindling fuel supplies go to essential uses, e.g. military, police, fire, agriculture, and long-haul movement of goods, especially food. Personal vehicles will be near the bottom of the list, just above airlines and monster-truck rallys. It won't be price that ultimately kills those long commutes, it'll be 5-gallon-a-week rations.

[dub_scratch]

Right DrDoom, the regime of motor fuel rationing is a sure thing during the coming oil shortage, especially when one considers the alternative: namely having our economy go down the toilet before gasoline curtailment as the public is willing to pay whatever fuel price to get to work. Rationing would be the smart move because it would force curtailment where there is a lot of room-- room being those extra seats in the fleet of cars jamming up the freeways at rush hour.

Besides that there is a motor fuel price that will kill long commutes. It's the same price that kills the economy first.

[MaterialExcess]

Yep, my biggest concern is rationing. Even with the current high gasoline prices, it is still a fairly small percentage of my income. I can afford to pay another couple dollars per gallon. I cannot afford to get by on 5 gallons/week though.

[ubercrap]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MaterialExcess', 'Y')ep, my biggest concern is rationing. Even with the current high gasoline prices, it is still a fairly small percentage of my income. I can afford to pay another couple dollars per gallon. I cannot afford to get by on 5 gallons/week though.

[MaterialExcess]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ubercrap', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MaterialExcess', 'Y')ep, my biggest concern is rationing. Even with the current high gasoline prices, it is still a fairly small percentage of my income. I can afford to pay another couple dollars per gallon. I cannot afford to get by on 5 gallons/week though.

[hull3551]

I’ve been following this thread on and off since inception. One thing I never see mentioned (that I’m aware) is the true price of gasoline. Yeah, it’s $3/gallon at the pump. But what do I need to earn to pay the three dollars?

For me, at least 30% of my gross earnings is taken out in the form of taxes, FICA, benefits, etc. Consequently, a $3/gallon price of gasoline truly costs me ~$4.30/gallon in earnings.

The only way thins would not hold true would be for someone filling their tank up with income earned tax free.

Just a thought.

[FairMaiden]

Two points: the automobile isn't the reason the tram died in the city - Ford and GM plotted to buy up all the tram lines and rip them up to force folks to purchase vehicles. They were later fined $5 for it. Also, the city's industry was dirty and smelly so the rich started the "suburbs" to get away from it.

Also, the Ford Explorer brand new gets 18 mpg...the '02 version will get 13 mpg (I'm getting these numbers from their site)...and thats assuming the vehicle has had regular maintenance to keep it in OPTIMAL working order...something I seriously doubt for most vehicles.

[joewp]

Don't look for demand destruction or conservation from the US any time soon. We're getting jobs further away from home even as energy prices climb.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Reuters', '
')NEW YORK (Reuters) - Americans are leaving home earlier to get work, fewer are walking, and more are driving alone, according to a study of commuting trends released on Monday.

The study, published by the Transportation Research Board, found people are also taking longer to reach their workplaces, with the number of people with commutes lasting more than 60 minutes growing by almost 50 percent between 1990 and 2000.

Alan Pisarski, author of the study 'Commuting in America III,' said the average national travel times among the nation's 128 million commuters grew to 25.5 minutes in 2000 from 22.4 minutes in 1990 and 21.7 minutes in 1980.

He said latest census data also showed that more Americans were leaving for work between 5 a.m. and 6:30 a.m. with men making up the majority of early-morning commuters.

"It's much more a product of the transportation system than the fact that they have an early starting time," Pisarski said.

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