[Wildwell]

No, certainly not rooting for PO. That includes no political motivation or opportunity to make money or anything else.

It's fairly obvious the way to world is going is unsustainable, and that's not just oil use. Stuff like climate change is a big issue already. So it's just interesting to see how things are developing. I sincerely hope it doesn't go bad because living in the 4th most densely populated country in the world on a very modest income with no garden I’m right in the firing line.

[PenultimateManStanding]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Madpaddy', 'P')MS wrote;
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 't')his is the place to wait it out. I want to be here posting at the end.

[Madpaddy]

Thanks PMS,

But those jokes were a long time ago. SInce then my wit has peaked and is now in terminal decline.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')here is this American tourist on a trip around Ireland.

When the tour arrives at Belfast he decides to go for a stroll with the aim of taking in this new culture. After he's been walking for a while someone rushes up behind him and sticks a gun in his back.

The person says to the tourist, "What are you, Catholic or Protestant?"

The American thinks to himself "Great--if I say I'm Catholic, this guy is sure to be Protestant. If I say I'm Protestant, he's sure to be Catholic. Either way I'm dead." Then he has a brain wave and says to the Guy, "actually I'm Jewish." This, he thinks to himself, will surely keep him safe.

The guy behind him then replies "Gee, I must be the luckiest Arab in Ireland."

[PenultimateManStanding]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Madpaddy', '
')those jokes were a long time ago. SInce then my wit has peaked and is now in terminal decline.

[kjmclark]

We need 70% reductions in GHG emissions to hope to stabilize the climate in the future. I have two young kids. I want them, and the other kids of the world, to have a planet that they can live on. Something has to kick consumer society in the teeth so that we can move on to a more sustainable future.

Peak oil is one of many possibilities. I think it's more likely to be many building problems that together break the back of American consumer society. I don't expect a collapse of developed economies, though I do expect significant die-off in the less-developed (and over populated) world, probably through a combination of climate disasters, famine, disease, and war. I expect the energy profligate countries to suffer as the energy efficient countries thrive. Think Weimar Republic and Great Depression for the developed world, or collapse of the Soviet Union, followed by World Energy War I.

As to Matt's question about "players" and making money, I learned a valuable lesson in dodgeball as a kid. I was an alternately scrawny and overweight kid with glasses, so I was not considered likely to win at dodgeball. However, I won about half of the time. The secret is to be unobtrusive, and work with others to take out the strong while successfully dodging their attacks. This cycle of conspicuous wealth accumulation won't last forever, but bubbles tend to last longer than people expect. Besides, you can't eat paper money or gold.

[Andrew_S]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Madpaddy', 'P')MS wrote;
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 't')his is the place to wait it out. I want to be here posting at the end.

[Jack]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MattSavinar', 'S')o what's your motivation?

[azreal60]

Not new or orginal perhaps, but very very wise. Have you ever read Enders game? Orson scott card is the author. What your doing reminds me what Peter and Valentein (sp) from the book did, testing their ideas and way's of influencing people on the net as different people. They finally developed a main character a peice, competely different people, to be the two ends of the ideological spectrum. They used those two ends to manipulate people into doing what they wanted. Always found that story facinating.

But back on topic, that approach sounds like a very wise thing to be doing. Not rooting for it, but using it. Hey, everyone else that get's it will be trying to. Why not you?

[magician]

man i hope it goes splat on the fan. bring it on. my wife and i are 25 this year, and we hope it happens when we are young and not when we are 35-50. then its hard to flow. harder to adapt. harder to hide in the woods. also if we dont see a fast crash soon, the government here in the US is going to get progressivly more 1984 as we proceed. hell our government seems to be progressing in a geometric fashion towards fascism. Ive spent my whole adult life wishing our system of economics/governance would hit the wall. we are more than prepared for such scenarios (as long as its not nuclear, that worries me). however what im not prepared for is a total police state, fema work camps, infra-red flyovers over the mts for escaped fema camp workers, RFID chips in us and our children. food ration chips. civilian relocation (get on the truck or this nice man with the M-4 will shoot you) robot soldiers, the works.

that kind of orwellian bullshit and TV-reality creation frightens me alot more than an economic crash, food shortages or dieoff. simply because I can survive in almost any environment. I can't survive a continued ramping up of the police state. im too loudmouthed. they would just execute me.

--fr coyote

[MadMarcus]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('OilyMon', '
')I think the scale should have three axes that one should be allowed to fall on with extremes at each endpoint.

Axes 1: Doomer -> Cornucopian
Axes 2: Pro-peak -> anti-peak
Axes 3: Informed - > Uninformed

[keehah]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'M')ost of the ardent followers seem to really hope it will happen

[XOVERX]

Significant cultural destruction appears to be looming, because the inevitability of PO is not being prepared for adequately by the leading powers and/or population centers of the world. America, China, India, Canada, GB, Germany, etc.

I personally hope the world finds a way through the eye of the energy needle. I want my children to have a better life than I have had, and I have had a pretty good life to date.

But when most folks posting on these vary boards refuse to embrace something as insignificant as a 55 mph speed limit, I become quite gloomy and doomy. Dark thoughts of Thomas Hobbes' Leviathan, and Sigmund Freud's all-demanding id seize control of my mind.

Coach Darrell Royal used to say that luck is what happens when opportunity meets preparation. PO presents a tremendous opportunity, but is being met with meagre preparation.

Avoiding disaster appears problematic when America refuses to prepare for the expensive energy future. I will be most happy if this analysis is incorrect, especially for the quality of life for my children.

I am, in short, afraid America is not preparing to have any luck when the shadow of Peak Oil creeps upon the land.

[zoidberg]

I say drop da bomb. The venal, cowardly hypocrisy endemic throughout the rich self satisfied world needs a corrective dose of reality. However I do not think a full blown collapse in richer countries is likely. Borders can be sealed, the birth rate is already below replacement levels, centralized distribution, while inefficient can ensure everyone has enough to survive and doesnt need to go all mad max. Technological alternatives and heavy oil sources will provide some energy to stave off complete collapse. Seriously dude, you dont really need a personal vehicle and air conditioning. You can work in a factory or farm where supplies come en masse off the train every couple weeks. And in a world where the govt soldiers have APCs and helicopters with satellite imagery, vs would be bandits/rebels with their feet its not like order will be hard to maintain. Especially if the govt has its hands on the food/energy distribution systems.

To sum up, I hope it hits hard, but I have confidence in the desire of the ruling elites to maintain the status quo to find alternatives to collapse. (Even if I hate the ruling elites)

[Ludi]

Hell no I'm not "rooting for PO." I'm on the edge of the economic craphole as it is. PO will undoubtedly cause me to plummet over and become dirt poor, instead of merely lower middle class.

I hate the idea of people suffering more than they already do. I want to try to help them somehow, but I'm not sure I'll even be able to help myself.

[Pops]

I like the matrix proposed a while back since it includes not only the estimate of effects but ones opinion on their desirability. But to paraphrase Mr. Rumsfeld’s famous words 'We don’t know what we don’t know'; so the informed scale might be somewhat misleading.

I would suggest:
Cornucopian/Malthusian to describe ones estimate of the physical/technological situation vis a vie PO
Optimist /Pessimist to describe ones outlook on the social reaction/effect
Pro/Anti-peak to describe ones opinion on the desirability of PO in light of the above

So a Pro Cornucopian Optimist (PCO) may be rooting for peak to encourage technological advancement and the betterment of society

Probably the Anti Cornucopian Optimist (ACO) group would be quite large and mostly drive SUVs many miles to work on a daily basis.

The Pro Cornucopian Pessimist (PCP) population might be somewhat small and looking to get it all over with.

The Anti Cornucopian Pessimist (ACP) group however, might be a large one since they might believe PO; combined with every bit of technology that might be thrown at it will be the ultimate disaster.

A Pro Malthusian Optimist (PMO) may be rooting for the lessening of population pressure on the environment, social reform, personal gain, or even just a chance to go on a spree, whereas the

Anti Malthusian Optimist (AMO) might believe society may eventually recover but isn’t looking forward to the trip over the cliff.

Then there is the PMP who may be rooting for the downfall of society (along with their own for whatever reason)

And of course the AMP who isn’t.

I guess that makes me an AMO with a dash of ACP thrown in.

(And it gave me a headache)

[Atlantean_Relic]

Well at least we'll all be dirt poor together.

[Jack]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', 'T')hen there is the PMP who may be rooting for the downfall of society (along with their own for whatever reason)

[Aimrehtopyh]

I think modern society definitely "deserves" to have its face rearranged by Peak Oil. Fossil fuels have given us license to live lives extremely distant (conceptually) from what human beings truly crave and love. Our most powerful technologies (honarably concieved) have all been used toward selfish and frivolous ends. Consider the educational potential of television or the internet, yet 95% of the traffic on these media today is worse than useless. Every minute of "viewing pleasure" makes you more easily exploited by those who want to control you. I can't allow my children to browse the internet freely because the smut, slander, and pseudo-science is so pervasive.

Human nature can't be denied, but most successful individuals will tell you that frivolous indulgences need to be kept within tight limits of resource expendature. Failing to do so results in an undermining of what gained you the initial wealth and ability. The society I witness on a daily basis has definitely made "cultural candy" a huge part of its diet. Where does the blame lie? Partly on "The Powers That Be" but also on those who allow themselves to drift into complacency and a comfortable groove of wage-slavery.

The American Dream used to be to become wealthy by your own wits and hard work. Now the american dream is to hit the damn megabucks lotto. Consensual exploitation.

"The only way to fix it is to flush it all away."

Those who left me to sink or swim in the free market system will be left to sink or swim as all this B.S. falls apart.

[Pops]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jack', '
')
Ahh, but if society fails and one makes money out of it, and improves their lifestyle in both relative and absolute terms - one can be a happy PMP.

[Jack]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jack', '
')

"A Pro Malthusian Optimist (PMO) may be rooting for the lessening of population pressure on the environment, social reform, personal gain, or even just a chance to go on a spree,"