[PenultimateManStanding]

This is going to get us in the long run. But how many of us do the real work? How much is derivative, where the money is? And how long can the derivative, abstract work continue to pay is the real question. What kind of real work have you done? I used to clean swimming pools, that was real. I worked in the oil patch for a while, that was real. That was some in the trenches work, but mostly I've drifted through the derivative world. Oh yeah, once I made plastic drip-irrigation hoses in a hot east county factory. Even if you look at "real work" like trash collecting, ever notice how much energy those guys are using? Maybe it's all abstract except sports and farming.

[DefiledEngine]

But this depends on what kind of farming you're referring to, doesn't it? Even stuff like modern farming, energy or mining could be concidered derivatives. It's all pretty complex.

But what does it all mean, Mr. PMS?

[TheTurtle]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', ' ')Maybe it's all abstract except sports and farming.

[Ludi]

I make physical objects for a living, I'm not sure that's "abstract."

[killJOY]

I teach, which mostly seems crappy and abstract. It makes me money.

I also work part time as a firefighter/EMT, 99% of which is waiting around in idling vehicles burning up diesel fuel, and shuttling hypochondriacs to hospital.

Then I come home and grow, harvest, and eat fruits and vegetables. Thus, I can say I have a life.

[Kingcoal]

Actually, throughout history, abstract work has tended to pay more, a lot more, than "real work." Farming has never paid more than it does now. Before the "energy age" (circa 1200AD), farmers were themselves property of the local lord (landlord.) They paid their “keep” with most of the fruits of their labors.

Back then, tradesmen where kind of like the middle class today. They had skills, which they sold to the highest bidder. They banded together in guilds, similar to today’s labor unions. The master tradesmen had their apprentices do the hard work. The tenant farmers dreamed of sending their kids off to be apprentices to the tradesmen, kind of like sending your kids off to college today.

There you go, before the hydrocarbon age you had a social structure in which real work, Gods work, was devalued even more than it is today. Even back in the days of hunting and gathering, abstract work tended to pay more. Establishing a territory and taxing the residents of that territory via promises of protection was still the norm. Pay up or suffer the consequences. Tony Soprano would do well in any epoch.

It's clear to me that owning property and leveraging that ownership (through the enforcement of property rights) to obtain goods and services has always been the best path to wealth. I don't see any change in that, peak oil or no peak oil.

In fact, if you really think about it, the lower classes have never been more empowered, more respected and cared for in all of history. Today’s hydrocarbon powered societies hold high minded egalitarian ideas which tend become to socially expensive when the shit hits the fan.

[PenultimateManStanding]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('DefiledEngine', '
')
But what does it all mean, Mr. PMS?

[DefiledEngine]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')Don't ask me, ask Kingcoal. He's the man with the big brainpan. BTW, I like all those original Star Trek monsters. Anybody remember this one?

[PenultimateManStanding]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('DefiledEngine', '
')For a guy with Mr. Natural as avatar, I was hoping you'd get the reference...

[Ludi]

in his own words:

[anneliese-nyc]

Most "modern work" will go by the wayside during the "transition ".
It will be the tangible and physical work that will survive .
We will see many of the larger corporations fall .
Those who work in consulting , financial advising and sales had better have other skills .
The military/gov will get larger to keep that nuisance population in control .

[lotrfan55345]

Abstract?
http://www.fanfiction.net/s/2629562/1/

[Matrim]

I insulate houses for a living, yes thats right I'm the reason you stay warm in the winter. Oh I'm also an integral part of the suburban problem but hey my kids gotta eat.

peace